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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 04 February 2008 - Volume 04<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Language politics" 2008.01.31 (02) [E]<br></span><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Language politics<br><br>Dear Lowlanders,<br><br>It's time for another "naive" question, I'm afraid ...<br>
<br>I
realize that this is likely to be a sensitive matter, since it deals
with Northumbrian loyalty to England, the country in which they live,
and many may not want to be seen as Scots, and the name "Scots" evokes
association with Scotland after all. But if I can't ask this here,
where can I?<br><br>So
lets assume this unity thing were taken seriously and "Scots" would be
unacceptable on the part of Northumbrians ("Lallans" probably too
because of its association with Scottish culture), how would Scots
speakers react to a proposal to call the united language "Northumbrian"
-- for that's what both of them really are, "Modern Northumbrian": a
Northumbrian of Scotland and a Northumbrian of England (a bit like Low
Saxon of German and the Netherlands which many of the players in
Germany still refuse to accept). I suppose that language activists of
(today's) Northumbria (on the English side of the border) would have to
be assure that they would always play a part in decision making, that
possible standardization not be solely Scottish-based or
Scottish-dominated, and that they (south of Hadrian's Wall) remain
considered a distinct unit within the whole.<br><br>Now
let me indulge in a bit more "naive" speculation on this basis. Let's
assume all the Northumbrian speakers on both sides of the border did
come to an understanding, how would the government of England react? I
assume there would be little or no opposition on the part of the
government of Scotland (since it would be no fat off <i>their </i>backs).<br><br>The
issue of national loyalty should not arise in this day and age, and
there would probably no well-founded fear of secession. But you never
know. (What ever is happening with the Cornish independence movement?)<br><br>I
am not suggesting that I think such unification should happen. After
all, who am to suggest this? I am only curious to know how such a
proposal would be received by the relevant parties.<br><br>So what say the horses' mouths?<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></blockquote> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>A few points here Ron;</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">1.
I'm not convinced that Northumbrian dialects are any closer to Scots
than to other Northern English dialects. In particular, Geordies don't
generally sound medial "r"s any more than other Northern or Midland
English, or Standard (Southwestern does, but more like an American "r"
than a Scottish one). What purpose would grouping Northumbrian with
Scots serve, other than to satisfy a few linguists? </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">2.
Hadrian's Wall is not, and never has been the border between England
and Scotland; most Northumbrians live north of it. It was built by the
Romans, long before there were any English or Scots in anything like
their modern, or even Mediaeval, sense.</div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">3.
Government of England? I wish! where do I find them? Scotland has a
Parliament, as does Northern Ireland, and Wales has an Assembly.
England is ruled directly by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, with
members from other countries in the Union having the same voting rights
as English MPs.</div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">3.
"The issue of national loyalty should not arise in this day and age,
and there would probably no well-founded fear of secession. But you
never know." The fear of secession, as you put it, is the British
govenrment's concerns about growing English identity, and growing
demands for the same degree of political independence as other
countries in the UK - an aspiration supported by the Scottish
Nationalists incidentally. Our last two Prime Ministers have been
Scots. Dividing England into blocks to argue that it "isn't a real
country" is one of the tactics used.</div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"> <div> </div> <div>Paul <br></div></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Language politics<br><br>Thanks a lot for this one especially, Paul. I really appreciate the way you answered my questions in the spirit they were given.<br>
<br>So let me recap and add to make sure I got this right.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><ul style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><li>England is not formally a country but is a historical entity contained within the United Kingdom, though it consists of formal regions.<br>
</li><ul><li>Wales and Northern Ireland have their own assemblies, and Scotland has its own government, while England has neither on a country level.</li><li>The Crown Dependencies Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not formally parts of the United Kingdom, nor are the fourteen British overseas territories.</li>
<li>Elizabeth II holds the title of Queen regnant of the United Kingdom, among others. But is it correct to say that Queen of England is not a formal title, because England is not formally a country?<br></li></ul><li>Northumberland is not a formal region but is a historical, cultural and linguistic entity contained within today's two formal regions Northeast and Yorkshire and the Humber.<br>
</li></ul><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks again, Paul.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
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