<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 09 February 2008 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Henno Brandsma</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L Phonology" 2008.02.07 (02) [D/E]<br><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
</span><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Roland Desnerck <span><<a href="mailto:desnerck.roland@skynet.be" target="_blank">desnerck.roland@skynet.be</a>></span><br>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2008.02.05 (08) [E]<br><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> <font size="2">Beste Ron, Ingmar en alle andere Lowlanders,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">In
de meeste West-Vlaamse dialecten klnikt de "oe" als een diftong. Het
zijn meestal stijgende diftongen, d.w.z. de klemtoon ligt op de tweede
klankgreep.</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">Zo klinkt:</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">goed = goewd of gwoed (eigenlijk: hoewd of hwoed)</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">zoet = zoewte of zwoete</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">bloeden = blwoen</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
</div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">maar:</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">boek = boek</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">zoeken = zoekn</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">koel = koele</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">In vele West-Vlaamse dialecten klinkt ook de "oo" als een diftong. Zo in Ichtegem, Eernegem:</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
</div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">rood = rwed tot rowed</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">hoog = hwegge tot howegge (eigenlijk: wehhe, owehhe)</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">De
"ee" is in Geheel West-Vlaanderen een diftong met uitzondering van
Oostende waar die klinkt als de "ai" in het Franse "maître, pair"</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">Nederlands West-Vlaams Oostends</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">een jin, ijin ain</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">twee twji twai</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">klein kljinne klaine</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">heer jirre aire</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">enz.</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
</div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><font size="2">Toetnoasteki</font> </div><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <div><font size="2">Roland Desnerck</font></div></font><br>----------<br></div> <br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Are or were these vowels short perhaps?<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> <div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Within
the language group we are dealing with here, this sort of breaking,
namely the sort you demonstrated in Western Flemish, is a well-known
phenomenon in Frisian, specifically Westerlauwer (West) Frisian. I
therefore wonder if it is in fact due to an old Frisian substratum,
considering that Zeeland and the adjacent northwestern of Flanders was
the southernmost extent of the Frisian language at its height.<br><br>Old Frisian W. Frisian W. Flemish<br>ên ien jin, ijin<br>hêra hear jirre</div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">W.
Frisian has "jin" as well, in compounds and as the "reflexive" of
"men". E.g. ienentweintich is pronounced as "jin-en-tweintich"</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"hear" is not broken, but the comparable "hearre" (to hear) is [which might have impeded the noun]: "jerre".</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><blockquote style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">As
soon as you go farther south along the coast and arrive at Ostend you
seem to leave that area. In addition, that is an area in which Saxons
settled at one time, which probably influenced the local language
varieties.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> <br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">Nederlands West-Vlaams Oostends Northern Low Saxon<br></font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">een jin, ijin ain eyn (~ ayn)<br></font></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">twee twji twai twey (~ tway)<br>
</font></div> <div><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">klein kljinne </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> klaine (kleyn (~ klayn))</span><br></font></div>
</blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In Frisian we have "twjilling" for "twins". The normal word is "twa" but "twie" is historically another gender of this word.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(in North Frisian they still use 2 forms depending on gender, like German dialects also do).</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In
WF we have "klien" in a very specialist meaning "petite", say. A woman
can have "kliene hannen". But "lyts" (cf. English little, Dutch
"luttel", etc) is the normal word.</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><blockquote style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite"><div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">
<font size="2">In the case of Dutch <i>oe</i> [u(:)], Old Franconian has <i>uo</i> (and Old German has <i>uo</i> where Modern German has <i>u</i> </font><font size="2">[u(:)]). So perhaps what happened was that <i>uo</i> changed to <i>uu</i> (written <i>oe</i>) in the north, but in Western Flanders it broke from <i>uo</i> to <i>wo</i>.<br>
</font></div><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Regards,</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Reinhard/Ron</span><br></blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Henno Brandsma<br><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Phonology<br><br>Thanks a lot, dear Henno. This was just the information I was hoping for.<br>
<br>For the record: the use of <i>lüt</i> (<i>lütt, lut</i>) versus <i>kleyn</i> (<i>kleen</i>, <i>klein</i>, <i>klain</i>) for 'small' or 'little' in Low Saxon depends mostly on the dialect. However, this does not mean that a dialect can not use both, although one of them would be used predominantly.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">