<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 01 March 2008 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marsha Wilson</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:marshatrue@mtangel.net">marshatrue@mtangel.net</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span class="HcCDpe"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (10) [E]</span><br><br></span><div><font face="Comic Sans MS">Awk! Awk! Well, I
plead incipient old-timer's disease. Lad, you might've spared me
the embarrassment and replied off list! The rest of you lot please
disregard the interruption.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Comic Sans MS">But thanks for the info.</font></div>
<div><font face="Comic Sans MS">Ol' Whutsername</font></div><br><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Marsha Wilson <span><<a href="mailto:marshatrue@mtangel.net" target="_blank">marshatrue@mtangel.net</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">LL-L
"Language politics" 2008.02.29 (06) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></span></div>
<div><font face="Comic Sans MS">Regarding the origin of last names.....you
tell me! My maiden name is Coin. I am apparently of Scots-Irish
and Welsh ancestry. I've never asked a linguist about the name. I
suspect it didn't come from money, as that's apparently always been missing in
my family, LOL. My great-grandmother's maiden name was True, and I carry
it also. If anyone has insight into either name, I'm all ears, as they
say.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Comic Sans MS">Marsha True Coin Wilson</font></div>
<div><font face="Comic Sans MS">in the cloudy lowlands of
Oregon</font></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">-----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Etymology<br><br>Oh, Marsha, Marsha! What shall
we do with you?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Take a lot at the archived
message below.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron<br>Sleepy in
Seattle</span></div><br>----------<br><br><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 131, 145);">Mark Dreyer</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (04) [E]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id="1eyd" class="ArwC7c ckChnd">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Dear Jorge</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"></span> </div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"></span>Subject: LL-L
"Etymology"</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You
wrote: Member Dreyer isn't in the OED, but <i>drayer</i>, <i>dreyman</i> and
<i>drayman</i> are, all meaning a carter. Not a word in my Dutch and German
dictionaries.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Same from my Sweet's OED. But Family history avers that
the founding father of our line was a waterfiscaal, a water-bailiff. Such an
official's business was to the police the <b>turning</b> of the
water-gates on the sluices - I daresay an important enough position whether
there is too much water on the land or too little.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Our Ron came up with other derivations, offering the point
that it could refer to a turner, a lathe-operator, which is a recognised
specialist craft in the remote past, & which makes better sense in
Afrikaans, & to my chagrin also the possibility that it refers to (going
Yiddish) a swindler - one who turns the truth.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><font size="3">Yrs,</font></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><font size="3">Mark</font></span></div></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 96);">M.-L. Lessing</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (04) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br>
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id="1ex6" class="ArwC7c ckChnd">
<div>
<div>Dear Jorge,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>my name Lessing is slavic and derived from "les" = wood. "les-nik" must
have been "the man from the wood". (Perhaps a charcoal-burner?) The origin
region of the name is in fact the Lausitz, a region in the eastern corner
of today's Saxony. The writer and dramatist G.E. Lessing came from there too, he
was born a clergyman's son in Kamenz. But there is no connection between him and
my family except the name. My father's ancestors have lived in the Lausitz as
honest craftsmen, mostly stone-masons, for centuries, and none of them ever
wrote a play or even a poem :-) They came from there to Westphalia when the
great coal mines along river Ruhr developed, in one of the first waves of
industrialisation. They then lived as workers and teachers in
Westphalias towns and married daughters of local workers, teachers and
farmers. -- How do I know? Hitler's doing. My father's family once needed an
"Ariernachweis" (a proof of their family's non-jewish descent) in the Nazi era,
and the young genealogist they engaged for the job developed much more
enthusiasm than he was asked for and traced the family back till the time of
30-years-war, when the church registers were burned. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>My mother's familiy were farmers in the Elbmarsch south of Hamburg, their
name was Jungclaus, and my grandmother's maiden name was also Jungclaus. They
also can be traced back to the Deluge. But when I consider all the sidestreams
that flow into one's genetical and personal history, I think it sheer wantonness
that we should be represented by *one* name that has come from just one branch.
The Individual can not be caught in this. Unless, indeed, you identify with it
by free will. (And even not then ;-))</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hartlich Gröten,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Marlou</div></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: <a href="mailto:KarlRein@aol.com">KarlRein@aol.com</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (10) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br></span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#000000" face="Arial Unicode MS" size="4"><div>
<font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" size="2">While we are on the topic of the etymologies of names, I wonder if you,
Reinhard, have any comments about your first name, and my last name,
Reinhardt. I once had a professor who thought the first half was related
to "rain", i.e., "regen". His doctorate was in Germanic philology, from
around the beginning of the 20th century, but I never felt convinced by
his etymon. If you have already discussed this, I must have missed
it. Sorry.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><br>Thanks.</font></div>
<div><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000"><font size="2"><br>Karl Reinhardt</font></font></div></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">----------<br>
<br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Etymology<br><br>Hi, All!<br><br>Sorry, Marsha dearest. I thought it was cute, not embarrassing. I find this barnacle goose thing just as unforgettably cute.<br>
<br>Our Mark's surname Dreyer, also spelled Dreier and Draier, is pretty common in Northern Germany, and I believe that in these cases it is the equivalent of the German noun <i>Dreher</i> 'turner'. It would never even enter my mind to apply the Yiddish meaning, of course.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks for the interesting information about the name Lessing, Marlou! I never connected it with Sorbian, but it makes a lot of sense now that you explained it. Duh! In Upper Sorbian, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">lěsnik</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> means 'forester'. The famous writer and philosopher Gotthold Ephraim Lessing, who also has a Hamburg connection, was actually born and raised in Kamenz (Upper Sorbian </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Kamjenc</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">), Upper Lusatia (</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hornja Łužica</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Oberlausitz</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Please note that today's Lusatia (US</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> Łužica</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, LS </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Łužyca, </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">G. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Lausitz</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">) is only a tiny fraction of the original Lusatia, which included the cities Leipzig (US </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Lipsk</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">), Dresden (US </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Drježdźany</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">) and Görlitz (US <i>Zhorjelc</i>, Polish <i>Zgorzelec</i>, Czech <i>Zhořelec</i>), as well as a small part of Lower Silesia that is now on the Polish side of the border. A part of the region was under the domination of the Czech crown for a while. My maternal grandmother was from Görlitz, but her name and folklore were Sorbian. Görlitz, once the Lusatian capital and a wealthy member of the Upper Lusatian Six City League (German </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Oberlausitzer Sechsstädtebund</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, Czech </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Šestiměstí</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, Polish </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Związek Sześciu Miast</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">), is where Sorbian research institutions used to be until the late 19th century. The Polish city of Gorlice near Kraków was founded by Sorbian settlers from Görlitz.<br>
<br>The Nazis' suspicion regarding your father's surname probably arose from the fact that quite a few Jews bore the name Lessing, such as the philosopher Theodor Lessing (1872‒1933) and the geologist Fyodor Yulievich Levinson-Lessing (1861</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">‒</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">1939).<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Karl, yes, I have mentioned the origin of Reinhard, Reinhart and Reinhardt</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">before, but its sheer wonderfulness surely bears repeating. ;-)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The origin is Old Saxon (and Old German?) </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Raginhart</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ragin</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (which you find in </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Raginwald</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> > </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reginald</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, German </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinald</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, and in </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reginhold</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> > </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhold</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, English <i>Reynold</i>, as well) means 'counsel', 'advice', 'decision'. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hart</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> means 'hard', 'firm'</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, 'sound'</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, 'accomplished', 'good at'. It used to be associated with cleverness, astuteness ... of course. ;-) Hence also its connection the the Reynard the Fox.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Foxy greeting,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">----------<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">jonny</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology"</span><br><br><div><span><font face="Courier New">Beste
Lowlanners,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">these days I came
upon a probably soon (already??) forgotten LS-word I had learned as a
five-years-old boy (a good half century ago ;-)); from a neighbor who was about
85 years old <u>at that time</u>! It <u>sounds</u> in German spelling
<strong>'_Pataguten_'</strong>, would be in English something like
<em>'Puttugooten'</em>.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">It came to me in
connection with an amazing little story I'd like to tell
you.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">As a child then I
had a small wooden scooter with solid rubber tires, mounted on red disc
wheels of steel in which there were some holes.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">One bad day I
happened to ride into one of the many ditches which characterized our
landscape at that time. Well- I managed to climb out of the muddy water but
wasn't able to take my scooter with me. Our neighbour, who had been watching my
mishap, came and helped me to rescue my vehicle. When we pulled it out of
water and swamp we saw a little fish who had trapped itself in one of the wheel
holes. "Oh, look- an eel!" I said because it really looked like an eel. '"No.
boy," my neighbor said, "this isn't an eel, it's a <strong>Pataguten</strong>.
You can't eat it; it's uneatable or even poisened."</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Many years later I
tried to find out the German name of this fish, and I asked a lot of people
around me. Except of <strong>one</strong> man- he was owner of a store for
tackling equipment and is meanwhile dead- nobody could help me in my
investigations. This man- born and grown up in the extended local
region- confirmed the word but he also didn't know the Standard German
name.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">I needed a lucky
hit to come across the truth: in 'Pataguten' there is hidden the G:
'Schlammpeitzger', zool. <em><strong>'Misgumus'</strong></em>, with the curious
nickname G: 'Gewitterfurzer', meaning E: 'Thunderstorm-farter'- a small fish,
indeed looking like an eel, which is able to live in minimized habitats
with few oxygen. (Other nicknames are 'Wetterfisch', ['weather-fish'],
'Quietsch-Aal', ['squeak-eel'].)</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Is there anyone
round the world having an idea where this curious LS '_Pataguten_', which on the
first sight doesn't look/sound lowlandish at all, could originate from?
Additional we could try different spellings like <em>'Paraguten', 'Paddaguden',
'Pallaguden', 'Pellagoen'</em> etc.</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left">Allerbest<span> and thanks in
award!</span></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div><br>