<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 21 March 2008 - Volume 10<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"><a href="mailto:ipm7d@oi.com.br">ipm7d@oi.com.br</a></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Phonology" 2008.03.21 (05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> Hi, Han!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Sure. We had bok in old English but after the Vowel Shift</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
It became book oo/u/. I Think the same has occurrred in Dutch.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ívison.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Mensagem Original:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
> From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Phonology<br>
><br>
> Hi, Ívison!<br>
><br>
> Could you give us a few examples so we know exactly what you are talking<br>
> about?<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Reinhard/Ron<br><br>---------<br><br>From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"><a href="mailto:ipm7d@oi.com.br">ipm7d@oi.com.br</a></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.21 (05) [E]</span><br>
<br>> Hi, Hahn!<br>
<br>
I think the long ? , pronounced ow as in low, became oo, may be<br>
the same pronunciation as in OE, in Middle English<br>
and then in Modern English as in foot pronounced /u/.<br>
"?" became "u" as in the word "book", which may have previously been<br>
pronounced something in<br>
"loan."<br>
Is there any modern germanic language or dialect which has preserved<br>
this previous sound?<br>
<br>
Ívison.<br></div></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.21 (05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Yes, of the main modern Standard Germanic languages, I think Danish is the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
only one that still has long o (I'm not sure about Icelandic). But there</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
are many varieties of Low Saxon that have retained long o as well, e.g. in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
the Achterhoek, Twente and Central Drenthe, these are all regions in the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Netherlands, and many parts of Low Saxon speaking Germany. Also in the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Dutch province of Limburg and adjacent parts in Central Germany, the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Franconian dialects often have kept long o, whereas Standard German has u.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Greetings</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ingmar</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ívison wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
I wonder what happened to the Old Germanic Languages long o. It became</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
/u/ in their modern versions. I'd like to understand this process.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Is there any Germanic language or dialect which keeps the ancient sound?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Henno Brandsma</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.21 (05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Ivison dos Passos Martins <<a href="mailto:ipm7d@OI.COM.BR" target="_blank">ipm7d@OI.COM.BR</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Vowel shift</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hi everybody,<br><br> I wonder what happened to the Old Germanic Languages long o. It<br> became /u/ in their modern versions. I'd like to understand this process.<br> Is there any Germanic language or dialect which keeps the ancient sound?<br>
<br> Thanks for your attention.<br><br> Ívison.<br><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Phonology<br></div> <span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
</span><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hi, Ívison!<br><br>Could you give us a few examples so we know exactly what you are talking about?<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></div> <br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Probably the sound of "book" < from Old Germanic bo:k.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Indeed most Dutch varieties have [u], as has German (sometimes [u:] as well, I think), English, Afrikaans etc.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Danish has o: still (bog = [bo:(w)]), as have many Low Saxon varieties, and dialects in Limburgian, and some</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Dutch dialects (especially before -k and -g in Western dialects).</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Not sure about Icelandic or Norwegian/Swediah dialects. Probably most of the named standard languages</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">have varieties that preserve the o:-sound. Diphthongs are also common (ou in Limburgian, Low Saxon, Saterlandic),</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
or falling diphthongs starting in [u], like WFrisian [u.@] (bloed, goed).</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">North Frisian has ö (short), mostly: bök etc.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><div>Henno</div>
</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Phonology<br><br>What in Old Saxon is written "ô" tends to be /ou/ in Modern Low Saxon; e.g.,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr style="">
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">English</span><sup><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"></span></sup></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Scots</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Frisian</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">N.
Low Saxon</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Limburg</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Afrikaans</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Dutch</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Yiddish</span> </p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">German</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="">
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">book:</span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">bʊk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">byk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">buk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">bɔʊk</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"> ~ </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">baʊk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">boːk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">buk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">buk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span dir="rtl" style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="HE">בוך</span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="HE"><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">bux</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"> ~ </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">bix</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">bux</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="">
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">foot:</span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fʊt</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fɪt</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fut</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt; background: rgb(222, 235, 250) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fɔʊt</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"> ~ </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">faʊt</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">foːt</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fut</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">v̥ut</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span dir="rtl" style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="HE">וס</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="ZH-CN">פֿ </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fus</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"> ~ </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fis</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 2.25pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">fus</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">