<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 24 March 2008 - Volume 07</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><b style="cursor: pointer; font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" title="View all messages from this sender"> "Fonken, Gael M. [<a href="mailto:foga0301@stcloudstate.edu">foga0301@stcloudstate.edu</a>]" <<a href="mailto:foga0301@stcloudstate.edu">foga0301@stcloudstate.edu</a>></b><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><b style="cursor: pointer; font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" title="View all messages with this subject">confusion over the spelling of pale/pail</b><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> Thanks for the explanation
about "pole/pale". That helps to see the phrase in a wider
context. I had always thought of it as a Jewish thing. About "exotic"
and "nearby" cultures, though, I was raised in <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer;" class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206387521_0">Pakistan</span> in my
culture-absorbing pre-school years. And then also spent a lot of time on the
Mexican border. My brother's kids were raised in <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer;" class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206387521_1">Kyrgyzstan</span> and
came back to the US with ESL type difficulties in reading English. As an
adult, I am quite curious about people with "border culture"
identities like this who see border-crossing as part of their inner most
identity. Indian linguists are now speaking a lot about "multilingual"
identities as core to what gives <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer;" class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206387521_2">India</span> its special identity as a nation. They
lament the restrictions of "monolingual" cultures such as typify
the Western world since this view reduces borders to absolute lines in the sand
that divide people from each other in such violent ways. I agree that
borders (of this type) instill fear in those who live behind them. But that
is just not a universal experience. </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> I'm not
sure that you have figured out that my understanding of borders is vastly
different from that. People in the West keep forcing me back into this
rather rigid western mold, as if it was supposed to be mine from birth. But
it's not. I tend to have much more productive conversations with South
Asians when it comes to things like this. Recently though, I have been toying
with the possibility that the EC has helped Europeans to enter into (recover?)
this kind of multilingual worldview, but I'm getting a lot of signals
that <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer;" class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206387521_3">India</span> might be the only real example of it—as least in the sense of
it being a living yet still ancient source of meaning for them. <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); background: transparent none repeat scroll 0% 50%; cursor: pointer; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206387521_4">China</span> is
certainly not treating its language diversity like this, nor is the US; <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer;" class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206387521_5">Canada</span>
may be. At any rate, I'm grateful for the taste of this inner freedom
that I have within me. </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> But please give me
some space in this matter, it's not fear that leads me to bring up the
topic of borders in public. I do feel a sense of frustration though, that
so much of the modern (wealthy) world is, indeed, so fearful of crossing
borders (the borders that they have constructed). You're
right—that the way we treat those near to us has a lot to do with the way
we enter into every other type of relation. A prominent writer from the
Caribbean, Eduardo Glissant, focuses on the centrality of the concept of Relations
in his work. It is core to how the colonial world builds walls (poles?) with
words. Not all borders are the same, though, it depends on who is looking
and from which direction. I like to think that there are a lot of
lowlanders in the 'southern' parts of the diaspora who have this figured
out. Maybe what I say has more relevance for them?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">----------</span></p><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike Morgan</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Resources" 2008.03.23 (10) [E]</span><b style="cursor: pointer; font-weight: normal;" title="View all messages with this subject"><br></b></p><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> The upshot<br>
> of this was that I experienced culture shock in reverse when I was back<br>
> home. I had been much more open-minded going away into the "exotic" than<br>
> returning to the familiar that now seemed strange. I questioned lots of<br>
> things that I previously had seemed ordinary and mundane.<br>
<br>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Yes, after my first experience living overseas (in South Asia), I was</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
spoiled for life ... that is, I could no longer be satisfied with the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
easy life in the States. Everytime I stayed longer than a couple years</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
(only twice in fact), I was just too frustrated. I always described it</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
as frustration that "I had grown and they hadn't" (... or put less</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
judgmentally "I've changed and they haven't", since "growth" has an</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
inherent positive denotation), but suspect it was then as it is now</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
just wanderlust!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> And with every<br>
> discovery of the strange we learn more about ourselves and about that we<br>
> used to take for granted, as familiar and safe.<br>
<br>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Yes, and myself I find that more i have lived and sojourned in places</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
where things can NOT be taken for granted, and the MORE I learn to</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
take LESS for granted (e.g. my house for the first 3 months here in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Bombay while I was looking for a place of my own, had water a maximum</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
of 45 minutes a day!), the happier I generally am. ... NOT happy 24-7</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
-- living in India the frustrations are always there around the corner</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
(or at least wherever there is a government official!) -- but happier</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
overall.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> But help you grow as<br>
> a person it will inevitably<br>
<br>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Of that, i am not so convinced ... though i may once have been. I</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
have met too many Westerners AND too many Easterners who spend time in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
another "world", be it 1 semester as a student or 2-3 years as a 単身赴任</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
(tanshinfu'nin = company worker, usually male, sent to a company</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
branch office, usually far away, to live without his family), or 4-5</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
years as a NOVA (or other English conversation school) teacher earning</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
way more money that their qualifications justify, who go back home</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
having SHRUNK as a person. BY that I mean, they have spent the time</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
overseas, have NOT been open to differences and have NOT learned</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
anything REAL about the culture and people around them, have been</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
frustrated and dissatisfied, and have then gone back home even MORE</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
convinced of their own provincial ways of thinking and their own</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
ethnic/national superiority to everyone else in the rest of the world</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
(even though in fact all they experienced was maybe SouthEast LA).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
I am NOT saying that this is the majority case, but it big enough to</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
bring the word "inevitably" into question.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> help your community grow as well.<br>
<br>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">One can only hope!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> The latter meant that we had to accept the culture and as<br>
> much as possible experience and learn it the way we would have done had we<br>
> been local children. As much as possible we suspended judgment.<br>
<br>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Yes, I agree totally. THOUGH after 18 years of trying, i finally gave</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
up on Japan. I can suspend judgment (of other people at least), but in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
the case of Japan (and probably equally were I to look at America as a</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
real neutral ousider) the judgment is always THRUST upon you -- THEIR</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
judgment of THEIR superiority. And if their judgment were not so</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
hopelessly out of touch with any reality you or I know then perhaps</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
one could ignore it once or twice ... or a thousand times. But being</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
told, by people who have NEVER in their lives eaten anything but</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Japanese rice that Japanese rice is the BEST in the world is MORE than</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
even I could take (thank Ganapati and all the gods I NOW live in the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
country which has what is IMHO the world's tastiest rice)!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Dr Michael W Morgan</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Managing Director</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ishara Foundation</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Mumbai (Bombay), India</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
++++++++++++++++</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
++++++++++++++++</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド</span><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">----------</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Sandy Fleming</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">sandy@scotstext.org</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Resources" 2008.03.23 (10) [E]<br></span></p><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">> From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Resources<br>
<br>
</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">> Anyway, in the meantime I have built the "skeleton" of the new site<br>
> and would really like my fellow Lowlanders to check it out and give me<br>
> feed-back. Especially, please help me to describe the categories a bit<br>
> better if needed.<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/beyondthepale/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/beyondthepale/</a><br>
<br>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ron,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Nice pages, as always. Sepia, too!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
The cartoons remind me of another old Punch cartoon:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hotel Maid: "Ye canna gang tae the bathroom the noo!"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
London Gentleman visiting Aberdeen: "My good woman, whyever not?"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hotel Maid: "There's a body in the bath!"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In Scots "a body" means "a person".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Will do the submission thing when I've had a think.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a><br>
</font><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">jonny</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Resources" 2008.03.24 (02) [E]</span><span class="HcCDpe"><br></span></p><div id="1fn7" class="ArwC7c ckChnd">
<div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Ron,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">thanks for your
thanks ;-)- <i>door ne' foyr</i> ('you're welcomed')!</font></span></div><div class="Ih2E3d">
<div><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span><font color="#008080">> One
thing though: doesn't <i>s'il vous plait</i> literally mean "if it pleases
you"? (I think an 18th-century Germanized form of it for the "less
</font></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span><font color="#008080">>
cultured" was <i>wenn es Euch behagt</i> or <i>sollte es Euch
behagen</i>.)</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
</div><div><span><font face="Courier New">Yes, you're highly
probable right- and bear in mind what I said about my knowledge regarding French
;-)! I've had just a three-weeks trial in this language at school, then my
teacher (the very first and last female one in all my live) chased me out-
grrmmphh... </font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Just
"raking"</font> <font face="Courier New"> together my mouldy rudiments of
Latin it of course should be translated with adding the pronoun
'you', if it's allowed to be compared 1:1!</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left"><span>Thanks for your
improval!</span></div>
<div align="left"> </div><font color="#888888">
<div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div></font></div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">----------<br></p><p class="MsoNormal">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Resources<br><br>Thanks for the responses, everyone.<br><br>
Gael, I didn't want to come across as not allowing you any space, was just eager to explain my strong feelings about the fit of "Beyond the Pale" and about what borders represent to me. Stubbornly though, I still maintain that borders, any sort of boundary, even "friendly" ones, are based in fear. ;-)<br>
<br>Sandy, I'm glad I hit the right tone for you, so to speak. <br><br>Actually, it now looks as though we are being haunted. A uniformed apparition seems to be looking out from behind the post in the masthead picture. I don't remember it being there before ... Woooo ... Is it the ghost of a border patrolman or of an officer of the language police?<br>
</p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Hotel Maid: "There's a body in the bath!"</span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p><p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">
This is great! I hope you don't mind that I added it with a disclaimer saying that you've retrieved it from memory. Please let me know if you do mind.<br><br>So, Jonny, I take it I can enter your beloved word then.<br>
<br>Thanks again, everyone!<br><br>Reinhard/Ron<br></p>
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