<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 02 April 2008 - Volume 05<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.02 (02) [D]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: wim <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:wkv@home.nl" target="_blank">wkv@home.nl</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <mailto:</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:wkv@home.nl" target="_blank">wkv@home.nl</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Over het woord inkuilen inkoelen, <br>
Hier in Salland inkuilen is wat je doet met gras, je kuilt het in, het
wordt in een berg geperst en met plastic overdekt en met aarde, zo dat
het verzuurt en als wintervoer gebruikt kan worden.<br>
</blockquote></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
This word is unrelated to the word Jonny mentioned. Jonny better should
have written 'inkölen'/'inköhlen' instead of 'inkoelen' (I think
'inkeulen' would be the right representation in Dutch). The sound
written down as 'oe' in Dutch or Dutch based spellings is written 'u'
in German or German based spelling. So your word 'inkoelen' is
'inkuhlen' in German Low Saxon. It means 'to bury' or 'to lay in a hole
and cover it with earth' or something like that. What you are
describing would be 'Silo maken' in Low Saxon.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888">
<br>
Marcus Buck</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"></span><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jorge Potter</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:jorgepot@gmail.com">jorgepot@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.30 (07) [E/French]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Dear Roger Thijs and other Lowlanders,</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The dictionary definition of <i>boudin</i> is exactly what we eat as <i>morcilla</i>. No hot peppers. A big snack item here in Puerto Rico for between meals or to munch in bars and help soak up the ethanol.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Jorge Potter</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">¡Hasta aquí habemos llegao!<br><br>----------<br><br>From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"></span></span><span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mike Morgan</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]</span><span class="HcCDpe"></span><br><br>Johnny and all!<br>
<br>
namaste from the town of the beautiful bay! (questionable etymology)<br>
<br>
I only have a REAL suggestion ... for #3<br>
<br>
> 3. Low Saxon 'quotern', in the meaning of 'to complain about something'. On<br>
> the very first glance it could be related to English 'to quote' in the<br>
> farest sense of ' to quarrel about so./sth'.<br>
<br>
I am afraid my Germanic asound changes are a bit weak, and my copy of<br>
Weinreich (the father)'s history of Yiddish still in Japan, but I<br>
would put my money (what little of it I have after taxes ... having<br>
found out today that no matter how little I am paid as a foreigner I<br>
pay 30% taxes, the maximum!) that this MIGHT be related to Yiddish<br>
kvetshn קװעטשן ... though the primary meaning is 'press, squeeze', cf.<br>
German quetschen 'squeeze'. This word in fact gives American (at<br>
least) English "kvetch" in EXACTLY the sense of "to complain about<br>
something" ... though with the adional sense of "habitually" (like<br>
taxes?).<br>
<br>
This is JUST a guess ...<br>
<br>
MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक || માઈક || ਮਾਈਕ<br>
================<br>
Dr Michael W Morgan<br>
Managing Director<br>
Ishara Foundation<br>
Mumbai (Bombay), India<br>
++++++++++++++++<br>
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)<br>
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर<br>
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )<br>
++++++++++++++++<br>
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)<br>
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長<br>
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"></span><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">wim</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:wkv@home.nl">wkv@home.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]<br></span><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">From wim verdoold</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;"><a href="mailto:wkv@home.nl" target="_blank"><font color="maroon"><span style="color: maroon;">wkv@home.nl</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">zwolle Nederland</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">Hoi,</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">Over het woord </span></font><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">inkuilen inkoelen, </span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">Hier in Salland
inkuilen is wat je doet met gras, je kuilt het in, het wordt in een berg
geperst en met plastic overdekt en met aarde, zo dat het verzuurt en als
wintervoer gebruikt kan worden.</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">In het Sallands
"Parsvoer", in het hollands Kuilvoer,</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">Als ik het
woord inkoelen zie moet ik daar met aan denken.</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">Hopelijk heb ik
weer kunnen bijdragen aan de verdere verwarring…</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="maroon" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: maroon;">wim</span></font></p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"></span><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><p style="margin-bottom: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Jonny
found a new word:</span></font></p><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<ol start="3" type="1"><li><font size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Low Saxon 'inkoelen'. All of us German Lowlanners
should think it is 'to freeze down', G 'ein-kühlen', but according
to my sources its meaning is 'to overheat (a room, house etc.)'.
What could be the background of this word?</span></font></li></ol>
</div><p style="margin-bottom: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Jonny,
could it be related to Dutch "inkuilen". A farmer will often store winter
food for his animals in a large "hole" (Dutch "kuil")
and cover this "kuil" with earth so that it will keep till needed.
(cool in the summer, unfrozen in the mild winters of </span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Western Europe</span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">}?? Is that a
possibility? Jacqueline</span></font></p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span> <span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 96);">Soenke Dibbern</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:s_dibbern@web.de">s_dibbern@web.de</a>><br>
Subject: </span>LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="lDACoc"><br></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">An'n Mi., den 02. Apr.'08, hett Johnny Meibohm dit Klock 01.15 schreven:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
From: jonny <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"<br>
</blockquote>
</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
2. Low Saxon 'inkoelen'. All of us German Lowlanners should think it is
'to freeze down', G 'ein-kühlen', but according to my sources its
meaning is 'to overheat (a room, house etc.)'. What could be the
background of this word?<br>
</blockquote></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Maybe it's related to nds. "Kahlen/Köhlen" 'coals', so
"inköhlen/inkoelen" could mean something like 'to supply with (more)
coals, heat up'</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
3. Low Saxon 'quotern', in the meaning of 'to complain about
something'. On the very first glance it could be related to English 'to
quote' in the farest sense of ' to quarrel about so./sth'.<br>
</blockquote></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
My Grandma used sometimes a word "quedern" for 'to chat; to nag,
grouch', and I /think/ she mentioned once that she had picked it up
during her time as "Arbeitsmaid" on a farm in East Friesland in or
before WWII. So the word could of Frisian origin. But I think it's more
likely that it is related to nl. "kwetteren" 'to twitter; to chat'.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hoolt sik!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Sönke</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">----------<br><br></span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Etymology<br><br>Folks,<br><br>Please bear in mind the usual spelling pitfalls, such as *<i>quotern</i> actually being /kwaat-r-n/. In other words, you are dealing with a long "a" that in some German-based conventions is spelled "o" because that's what it sounds closest to from a German standpoint, although it is not and does not behave like a real long "o".<br>
<br>Yes, Low Saxon long "a" (/aa/), which in most dialects (as also in Western Flemish) is pronounced with anything from slight to full lip rounding, very often does correspond to /oo/ in other language varieties (such as <i>Maand</i> 'moon', 'month'). However, this is not a given, and in etymological sleuthing you must be constantly aware of the possibility that the phoneme is /aa/ when you see "o" in German-based spelling of Low Saxon.<br>
<br>So, yes, it is possible that <i>kwatern</i> corresponds to *<i>kwotern</i> elsewhere (if it existed). I do actually believe it is related to <i>kwoþ-</i> (English and Scots "quoth") 'to say', 'to utter'. In this case we are are encountering a now familiar morpheme: habitual <i>-r- (thus *kwo</i></span></font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><i>þ-r-</i>). So originally </span></font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><i>kwatern</i> would have been something like "to say things all the time."<br>
<br>We run into these additional problems due to differences of spelling systems as well as the frequency spelling flaws, not to mention the absence of standard spelling in some cases. This makes etymologizing a lot harder, even when dealing language varieties that are so closely related. I therefore suggest that we consider creating a web resource that lets people look up the pronunciation (Dutch-style "oe" = /u(u)/, "uu" is /üü/, German-style "uu" = /uu/, etc.).</span></font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> There could also be a sample table illustrating basic sound correspondences.</span></font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> Such a reference guide would make it easier for people to see the <b>phonemic</b> correspondences between the varieties without being mislead by spelling problems (e.g. Low Saxon "uu" ~ "oe" = Dutch "ui").<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></span></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br></span>