<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 14 April 2008 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Elsie Zinsser</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:ezinsser@mhsc.org.za">ezinsser@mhsc.org.za</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (07) [E]<br></span><div id="1esq" class="ArwC7c ckChnd">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I hear the same here in SA, Ingmar, but believe it relates more to
a speaker not being absolutely fluent in your tongue than it relates to that person's tongue
necessarily having a 'system of confirmation'. <br>
<br>
Diederik, is it possible that the 'Yes' or 'No' reply by West Flemish
speakers could mean brusqueness rather than anything else? <br>
<br>
Elsie<br>
</span></font></p><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>LL-L
"Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (07) [E]</span></font><br><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
</span></font>From: Ingmar
Roerdinkholder <<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL" target="_blank"><font size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</span></font></a></span></font>><br>
Subject: Culture related language use<br>
<br>
I noticed something interesting, the different way of replying to some<br>
questions by speakers of many non-European languages. I know a lot of<br>
people with African (Guinea, Sierra Leone, Congo, Angola etc), Middle East<br>
(Arab, Irani, Afghani etc) and Far East (Chinese, Vietnamese) backgrounds.<br>
If they are asked e.g. "Didn't you go to work today?" and they<br>
answer "Yes", this means "No, I didn't go to work". This
often leads to<br>
confusion, because a Dutchman or other European would say "No",<br>
meaning "No, I didn't go to work". So they just confirm the<br>
question, "yes" means "you're right, it's true what you
asked", whereas<br>
Europeans would say "no" i.e. "the action you're asking about is
negative".<br>
On the other hand, when asked "did you go to work today" and they did
not,<br>
both will answer "No."<br>
I'm curious if there are European languages too with the confirming<br>
system, and whether there is a difference between Indo-European languages<br>
and other, how languages like Hindi etc. handle this which are I E but<br>
from outside Europe</div><p>----------<br></p></div></div></div>From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roland Desnerck</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:desnerck.roland@skynet.be">desnerck.roland@skynet.be</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (07) [E]<br>
<br>
</span>
<div><font size="2">Beste Ron, Diederik en alle andere
taalvorsers,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">In het West-Vlaams kennen we inderdaad - tot
verbazing van Antwerpenaars en Limburgers - een "neen" waar de anderen "ja"
zeggen.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Dit is nochtans enkel het geval na een vraag waarin
"mo" (maar) komt:</font></div>
<div><font size="2">En hé je gie mo twi oogn? Nin'k!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Heb je maar twee ogen? Neen (ik)</font></div>
<div><font size="2">En hét hen hie mo tien joengers. Nainhen! Twi
knéchtjoengers én acht méjsjoengers!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Heeft hij slechts tien kinderen? Neen (hij)! Twee
jongens en acht meisjes!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">En zie je giender mo gister gewist?
Nainme!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Zijn jullie slechts gisteren geweest? Neen
(wij)!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Toetnoasteki.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Roland Desnerck<br>
<br>
----------<br>
</font></div><br>From: <span class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (03) [E]</span><br><span class="HcCDpe"><br>
</span><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL" target="_blank">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</a>></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: Culture related language use</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">I noticed something interesting, the different way of replying to some</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">questions by speakers of many non-European languages. I
know a lot of</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">people with African (Guinea, Sierra Leone, Congo, Angola etc), Middle East</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">(Arab, Irani, Afghani etc) and Far East (Chinese, Vietnamese) backgrounds.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">If they are asked e.g. "Didn't you go to work today?" and they</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">answer "Yes", this means "No, I didn't go to work". This often leads to</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">confusion, because a Dutchman or other European would say "No",</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">meaning "No, I didn't go to work". So they just confirm the</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">question, "yes" means "you're right, it's true what you asked", whereas</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Europeans would say "no" i.e. "the action you're asking about is negative".</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Ingmar</span><br></div><br><div>That's
one of the first traps you learn to avoid in Papua New Guinea when
learning Tok Pisin. The other lingua franca, Motu, has the same
construction, as I believe do many Austronesian and other Oceanic
languages. In fact, I wonder if the European way of reinforcing the
negative rather than affirming it might be a minority case (in terms of
numbers of languages, not speakers).</div> <div> </div> <div>Paul Finlow-Bates</div><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Mike Morgan</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (03) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gmail_quote"><div>Ingmar is curious: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
how languages like Hindi etc. handle this which are I E but<br>
from outside Europe.</blockquote><div><br>Indic languages geenrally use the "confirming" system: <br><br>He didn't go home (did he)?<br>Yes, he didn't go home<br>No, he went home.<br></div></div>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक || માઈક || ਮਾਈਕ</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Dr Michael W Morgan</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Managing Director</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">++++++++++++++++</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">++++++++++++++++</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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