<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 03 May 2008 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">-------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">If viewing this in a web browser, please click on</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page </span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.</span><br>=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.05.02 (10) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In most Dutch dialects of Zeeland, "Zeeuws", both lengthened short A and</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
old long A are pronounced as ae [E:]; so "waeter" and "slaepen" both have</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
[E:], in some Zeeuws dialect "weter" and "slepen" with [e:] or even [I:],</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
whereas Dutch has "water" and "slapen" with [a:].</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Most NL Low Saxon dialects have "water" [a:] and "slaopen" [O:], but in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
the North, Groningen and Northern Drenthe have [O:] or [o:]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
everywhere: "woater" and "sloapen". The latter also occurs in Brabant</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Dutch, both in NL as in Belgium.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Noord-Holland Dutch dialects, also called Westfries (West Frisian) in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Dutch, have "water" [a:] and "sleepe" / "sleipe" [e:i] / [Ei].</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Stellingwarvian Low Saxon, spoken in S.E. Friesland, has "waeter" [E:]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
and "slaopen" [O:].</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
NL Frisian has "wetter" and "sliepje", my guess is that "wetter" is from</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*"waeter" with the once stretched vowel made short again.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ingmar</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: Luc Hellinckx <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology"<br><br>
Beste Sandy,<br><br>
You wrote:<br><br>
I pronounce the herb and name as "bazzle" in English and Scots, but in<br>
Scots the /a/ -> /e/ shift can be productive on the stressed syllable if<br>
it's the first syllable of the word. Some such shifts are old and not<br>
optional in the regions where they're applied, eg, father -> faither,<br>
some may be more dynamic, eg I might say "carpet" or sometimes<br>
"cairpet".<br><br>
In general, the further south in Scotland, the more you hear the /e/<br>
forms. By the time you reach Berwickshire you may even hear "waiter" for<br>
"watter" (water), which people in central dialects probably wouldn't<br>
use. Conversely, it can surprise some central Scots to find that<br>
"father" is still used rather than "faither" in some more northerly<br>
dialects.<br><br>
I've always been interested in /e/-realisations for long "a" in Germanic<br>
languages (eg, father -> faither and water -> waiter), because it's also a<br>
hallmark of my own native dialect (Northwest of Brussels).<br>
Describing the sound isn't easy, but it's somewhere between long Dutch "a"<br>
and [ɛː] (รจรจ), and quite palatal.<br>
The only other place in the Netherlands and Belgium where I've heard a long<br>
"a", that sounds a bit similar, is Katwijk (Dutch coast, north of The<br>
Hague).<br><br>
The feature must have been more widespread in the past though, because<br>
Middle (Western) Flemish/Zeelandic spelling proposes [ɛː]-like pronunciation<br>
for standard [aː], and 15th century (Western) Brabantish hints at a palatal,<br>
and also diphtongal "a".<br><br>
Maybe this diphtongization can be traced back to an Ingwaeonic substrate<br>
(eg, year >< jaar ~ Jahr)?<br><br>
Kind greetings,<br><br>
Luc Hellinckx<br><br>
----------<br><br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Phonology<br><br>
Hi, Luc!<br><br>
I wonder if Frisian ought to be taken into consideration here. Remember<br>
that<br>
much of the coastal region of today's Dutch-speaking area used to be<br>
Frisian<br>
and that Frisian substrata ought to exist.<br><br>
Old Frisian had written *water*, but today's Standard Westerlauwers (West)<br>
Frisian has *wetter* [ˈvɛtər], and Scots has *watter* [ˈwatər]<br>
(Southern ['wetər]).<br><br><br>
Perhaps our Henno can tell us if there are Frisian varieties in which the<br>
[ɛ]<br>
is long. But I suppose next to nothing is known about the extinct Southern<br>
Frisian varieties.<br><br>
Note also the short vowel in German *Wasser* [ˈvatər] versus a long vowel in<br>
most Lowlands varieties (e.g. Low Saxon *Water*
[ˈvɒːtɝ] ~
[ˈvoːtɝ],<br>
Standard Dutch *water* [ˈʋaːtər],
Limburgish *water* [ˈvaːtər], and<br>
Afrikaans *water* [ˈvɑːtər].<br><br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br><br><br></div>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">