<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 18 May 2008 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">-------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">If viewing this in a web browser, please click on</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page </span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.</span><br>=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">jonny</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span class="HcCDpe"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">LL-L "History" 2008.05.17 (03) [E]</span><br><br></span><div><span><font face="Courier New">Dear
Reginhardt,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">you
wrote/quoted:</font></span></div><div class="Ih2E3d">
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Arial"><font color="#008080">To my
knowledge, there are no pre-Christian Saxon sources that give us any sort of
idea of what the Saxons were really like. As in most such cases, it is the
conquerer and the occasional visitor of other ethnicities that get to portray
the vanquished, and we are supposed to believe those descriptions.</font>
</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
</div><div><span><font face="Courier New">I fully agree with
you here, but indeed there are a couple of historicans who compare the
early Saxons with the Vikings.</font></span></div><div class="Ih2E3d">
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#008080" face="Arial">In these
portrayals, Liudger represents true Christian values to counterbalance
Charlemagne's use of Christianity for expansionist purposes.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
</div><div><span><font face="Courier New">We should bear in
mind that already before the time of Charlemagne there had occurred a
certain disjoinment of the Saxons into different 'Gaus', and not to forget those
ones who went together with the Angles and Jutes to Britain.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Their expansion had
been too wide, and so they certainly had/have developed differently (not
only in languages) within some hundred years of history.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Probably in
Charle's time the meanwhile mightiest concentration of them we find in the East-
and West-Phalian areas, and this region bordered to the Frankish dominion. So
here the conflict with Charles started, and the main part of the documentary
deals with these Saxons resp. depends on sources of that region
('Paderborn').</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Different from the
Northern Saxons (Wigmodien/Haduloah/Nordalbingien) the greater part of those
Saxons in the centre of Middle Europe right after having been defeated came
under a continuous rule of the Catholic Church what by and large was
kept up to the presence: there still are the dioceses Münster
and Hildesheim with a predominant catholic population around
them.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">Different in the
Northern part of Saxonia (Lower Saxony): the 'Nordliudi' ('people from the
North') obviously didn't easily accept the dominance of the Catholic Church
which fact is shown by the continuous resistance in the regions of Dithmarschen,
Stedingen, Hadeln and Kehdingen. Kehdingen for example got under the rule of the
Archbishop of Bremen A.D 1306 (many rebellions still followed!), and since
A.D. 1548 they had a protestantic pastor (Otterndorf already 1524). A pretty
short time with the Pope, but the Dithmarscher even didn't accept
the forerunners, the Counts of Stade (probably enthroned by Charlemagne
resp. the mighty Archbishop of Mainz), and killed some of them when
they dared to cross the Elbe river to inspect this part of their
domain ... Well done, neighbours ;-)!</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">So- if people start
investigations about the Saxons history they probably will come to
different results, depending on what area they look upon and
what weltanschauung they prefer...! You always should bear in mind that the
domicile of the ZDF is Mainz (see above) ;-)!</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div align="left"><span><font face="Courier New">Have a
nice Sunday!</font></span></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
Jonny Meibohm<br><br>----------<br><br><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: History<br><br>Thanks a lot, Jonny! Very interesting. And it makes a lot of sense, too. ;-)<br><br>Let me ask you and others some questions in this regard, questions that may or may not be naive. At any rate, they are based on what you and I seem to consider a fact: that in the land of the <i>Nordliudi </i>(today's Dithmarschen,
Stedingen, Hadeln and Kehdingen) there is a long tradition of what outsiders tend to consider conservatism. Even if you do not subscribe to this you must admit that, as in the cases of Dat Ole Land (Das Alte Land) and Veerlannen<i> (Vierlanden</i>) and even Finkwarder (Finkenwerder), it is remarkable that people in those parts have retained their identity so long considering the close proximity of at least three cities: Hamburg, Cuxhaven and Bremerhaven. (In the case of Dat Ole Land there may be the "Dutch" element that boosted a sense of uniqueness.)<br>
</span><ol style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><li>Apart from the aspect of rural versus urban, do you think this has anything to do with the ancestral anti-Frankish attitude?</li><li>Do you think that a certain measure of more or less staunch general North German identity goes back to the same, perhaps prolonged by centuries of Hanseatic power? (This tends to be expressed in the form of "North German" culture, but it is likely a continuation of Saxon identity and culture.)</li>
<li>Was the pretty much resounding success of the Reformation in the north favored by this? (In other words, is it possible that people perceived it as a type of liberation from Frankish dominance?)<br></li></ol><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks for thinking about it.<br>
<br>Kumpelmenten,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>