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<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 02 June 2008 - Volume 08<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">-------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">jonny</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (03) [E]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id="1evg" class="ArwC7c ckChnd">
<div>
<div><span>Beste Doug, dear
Lowlanners,</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Doug schreyv,
answering to</span></div><div class="Ih2E3d">
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#ff0000">*"vynde
boddeme maket vynde gut unde vynde gut maket vynde boddeme"*</font><br></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d"><div><font color="#008080">the aphorism might mean something like
"Bad ship, bad cargo; bad cargo, bad ship" or so, where "bad" could be either
"evil" or "enemy". Exact application not obvious to me.<br></font></div>
</div><div><span>This is, for my
guess, one very interesting interpretation of the conundrum!!! (Sorry- trying to
open your link I just found a lot of possibilities to get
furtheron...)</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Thanks,
nevertheless, to all the other guesses, dear people!</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Hope we're going
on.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div align="left">Allerbest!</div>
<div align="left"> </div><font color="#888888">
<div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div></font></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Douglas G. Wilson</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:douglas@nb.net">douglas@nb.net</a>></span><span class="lDACoc"></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (03) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*"vynde boddeme maket vynde gut unde vynde gut maket vynde boddeme"*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*vynde:* *1. winds*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
* 2. enemies*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
**</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*boddeme:* *1. the bottom(s) of a of ship*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*2. (a) special type of ship(s)*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
* 3. (a) shallow part(s) of the sea, near the coast, in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
special used in the Baltic Sea*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
**</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*maket:** make (3rd pers. sing/pl)*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
**</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*gut:** good*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
**</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*unde:* *and*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Who is able to solve this conundrum?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div class="Ih2E3d">
Probably not I, since I am ignorant of Low Saxon.<br>
<br>
Here is the aphorism with some context which is not fully legible to me.<br>
<br>
</div><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=lPsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22vynde+boddeme%22&lr=&as_brr=0" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=lPsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22vynde+boddeme%22&lr=&as_brr=0</a> <<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=lPsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22vynde+boddeme%22&lr=&as_brr=0" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=lPsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22vynde+boddeme%22&lr=&as_brr=0</a>><div class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<br>
I would guess:<br>
<br>
"vynde" = "enemy" (or "devil") (cf. German "Feind")<br>
<br>
"boddeme" = "[cargo] ship" (cf. English "bottom" = "[cargo] ship")<br>
<br>
"gut" = "cargo" (cf. English "goods", German "Gueter")<br>
<br>
Then the aphorism might mean something like "Bad ship, bad cargo; bad
cargo, bad ship" or so, where "bad" could be either "evil" or "enemy".
Exact application not obvious to me.<br>
<br>
Just a guess.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
But it's looking like a good guess after all. Compare this, from Thomas Jefferson (1793):</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7yp1S0B9lgC&pg=PA282&dq=%22enemy+bottoms%22&lr=&num=100&as_brr=0" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7yp1S0B9lgC&pg=PA282&dq=%22enemy+bottoms%22&lr=&num=100&as_brr=0</a><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<<On the contrary, we suppose it to have been long an established
principle of the law of nations, that the goods of a friend are free in
an enemy's vessel, and an enemy's goods lawful prize in the vessel of a
friend. The inconvenience of this principle, which subjects merchant
vessels to be stopped at sea, searched, ransacked, led out of their
course, has induced several nations latterly to stipulate against - it
by treaty, and to substitute another in its stead, that _free bottoms
shall make free goods, and enemy bottoms enemy goods,_ a rule equal to
the other in point of loss and gain, but less oppressive to
commerce.>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
There are numerous parallel examples (Google "enemy bottoms" for
example), I guess mostly in the literature of international/maritime
law.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
-- Doug Wilson</span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br><br></span></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
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