<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 07 June 2008 - Volume 04<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.07 (01) [E]<br></span><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Beste Fred, </span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Kilometer is not the only word of this type. We also
pronounce <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">ki</span></b>logram, <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">ki</span></b>localorie, <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">ki</span></b>lojoule and <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">ki</span></b>lowat.
Our pronunciation follows the official rule for the pronunciation of the Dutch Compound
Noun, which says, very freely translated,
"When we pronounce a compound noun the Stress will fall on the
first part of the noun, but the noun will have the gender of the second part."
Take
"<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">wereld</span></b>tournooi" and
"<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">wereld</span></b>kampioen":
both Compound Nouns are pronounced with stress on the first compound, but <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">wereld</span></b>tournooi is a neutral "het"
noun because it is het tournooi; <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Wereld</span></b>kampioen
is a "de" word because de kampioen is a noun with common gender.</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Just to make you happy we say "stad<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">huis</span></b>" and we say </span></font><b><span style="font-weight: bold;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Rotter</span></font></span></b><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">dam</span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> and </span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Amster<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">dam</span></b></span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">. </span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;" lang="NL">Go figure! De taal van
mensen is, net als de mens zelf, illogisch.</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;" lang="NL">Prettige Zondag. Jacqueline</span></font></p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Danette & John Howland</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:dan_how@msn.com">dan_how@msn.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.07 (01) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hello, everyone.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Fred van Brederode brought up an interesting point when he wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">"... what everyone does is not necessarily the right thing. </span></font></span></p>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<p><span><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">The pronunciation of kilometer as kil<b><u><span style="font-weight: bold;">o</span></u></b>meter
is completely analogous with the pronunciation of words like barometer
and thermometer. The analogy may be the very reason for it. Most words
ending on …<b><u><span style="font-weight: bold;">o</span></u></b>meter however are instruments of measurement. For that reason one might rather think that a kil<b><u><span style="font-weight: bold;">o</span></u></b>meter is an instrument for measuring kilo's, than a measure of distance</span></font></span><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB">.</span></font></span><span><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-GB"><br>
When indicating the distance of a thousand meters, a more proper pronunciation would probably be: <b><u><span style="font-weight: bold;">ki</span></u></b>lometer, stressing the first syllable. We do the same thing with <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">ki</span></b>lobytes when a thousand bytes are meant. Why change it when it comes to meters?<br>
</span></font></span></p>
<p><span><b><u><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">Ki</span></font></u></b></span><span><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">lometer may be more proper, but even if it is, it still seems odd to be the only one pronouncing the word properly. <span> </span></span></font></span></p>
<p><span><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">The bottom line is I brought myself into the situation of finding both ways of pronunciation odd."</span></font></span><br>
</p>
</div><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Does this
discomfort result from the fact that speakers of germanic languages
have stronger accents than other european languages? Our tendency to
accent the first important syllable is in contrast to the less accented
(and therefore more open to different pronunciations and nuances)
original forms of italic and hellenic roots and coined terms. Look at
the English pronunciations of <b>pho</b>tograph, pho<b>to</b>graphy, and photo<b>graph</b>ic. This convention is well accepted and regular but may have little to do with Greek patterns of emphasis.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In English we do
not consistently indicate that a word is borrowed from a foreign
language by moving the accent. We say either "ho<b>tel</b>" or "<b>ho</b>tel" depending on dialect or suitability for desired speech rhythms. It seems to me that saying "<b>ki</b>lometer"
makes it sound like an imitation home-grown word. That is how I
pronounced it as a child, knowing the word only from the written
language. This sounds "right" to my English-Saxish conditioned brain.
It also sounds very wrong for a word made up of mediterranean roots.
Hence the dilemma that Fred and I both share.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Be well.</p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
John Howland</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Phonology<br><br>Fred,<br><br>As alluded to by John above, this stress pattern makes a lot of sense to the average speaker of American English because it is a case of analogy and application of "Greek stress." "Greek stress" falls on the antepenultimate syllable, even if it does not do so in the donor language, as in "análogy", "apócalypse", "híerarchy", "archepélago", "metamórphosis", "écstacy", "geógraphy", "cáliper", "hármony", "théorem", "théory" and "ephémeral". This appears to be an old rule in which fairly frequent stress pattern in Greek (e.g. διάμετρος <i>di</i><i>ámetros</i>) has been generalized.<br>
<br>Words containing "metre" ~ "meter" (< μέτρον <i>m</i><i>étron</i>) tend to be analyzed and thus stressed as Greek loans, such as "diámeter", "micrómeter", "barómeter", "thermómeter", "speedómeter", "tachómeter" and "odómeter". Seen in this light, the pronunciation "kilómeter" makes sense. However, it is not consistently applied, as in "céntimeter" (not *"centímeter") and "míllimeter" (not *"millímeter"). It has been said that this Greek pattern should only apply where "meter" is a measuring instrument. This is a rule of thumb only, considering the case of "diámeter". But remember that the US are still steadfast in their refusal to join the rest of the world in using the metric system. So the average American isn't all that familiar with those "foreign" units of measure.<br>
<br>I don't think there's any right and wrong, just dialectical variation. And there are other cases in which Americans find non-American stress patterns very strange, such as "contróversy" (vs US "cóntroversy") and "applícable" (vs US "ápplicable").<br>
<br>In general, however, American English is more flexible when it comes to stress assignment. It is less ready to Germanicize words, especially words of Romance origin. (This may be because of long-term exposure to Spanish, French and many other languages). British "gáraazh" ~ "gáridge" for "garage" (US "garáazh") and "hárass" (US "haráss"), for example, sound very strange to US American ears.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></span>