<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 08 June 2008 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">-------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">If viewing this in a web browser, please click on</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page </span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.</span><br>=========================================================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Soenke Dibbern</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:s_dibbern@web.de">s_dibbern@web.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.07 (03) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Op'n Sa., den 07. Jun.'08, hett R. F. Hahn dit Klock 20.11 schreven:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hi Ron, Jonny and all,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
even though the puzzle seems to be solved by Arthur Jones' remarks, I have a few thoughts left on it.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: What does it mean?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hi, Luc, and thanks for the response about this boddeme thing.<br>
<br>
I get your point, and you and whoever advanced the ship theory may well be correct.<br>
<br>
Here is what swayed me (and I'm still not totally married to it):<br>
As Jonny mentioned, boddem also denotes shallow coastal waters. Even in
German the loanword Boddom is still used to refer to certain stretches
of shallow water along the Baltic Sea coast.<br>
</blockquote><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Do you refer to "Bodden" here, as in "Greifswalder Bodden"?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
So, I simply meant coastal waters, in this case those then regarded as
being part of Danish territory. Yes, Boddem still means 'bottom' in
Modern Low Saxon, but I don't think the German idea of Boden comes into
it (leave alone Blut und Boden).<br>
</blockquote><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Is "Bodde*m*" above a typo, or a LS word I don't know? To my knowledge
there are two words in LS that I suppose to be cognates of E "bottom"
(ground; also: buttocks), D "bodem" (ground; also: ship), Swedish
"botten" (ground). These are</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
1. Böyn (~Böön, Böhn) - attic, ceiling, cf. G (Dach-)Boden</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
2. Bodden (~Borden, Borrn) - ground, area (of land), soil</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
While at least in modern Low Saxon certainly the word "Grund" would be
used to evoke the associations linked to "Boden" in German (as in G
"Auf meinem Boden ...", LS "Op mien Grund ...", "On my
[premises/property/estates](?)</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id="1eup" class="ArwC7c ckChnd">..."), I don't know whether this was the case during the middle-ages as well...<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
This volume contains hundreds of Hanseatic documents, mostly
correspondence, of a four-year period in the 15th century. Yet this
short letter is the only one mentioning boddem(e). If it means 'ship'
and 'ships', why are ship and schepe mentioned everywhere else rather
than boddeme?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Besides Arthur Jones' explanation, which I find more convincing, the
reason could be that Jonny's sentence was a proverb/idiom/rule of
thumb, already old at that time. Everybody would have known its
meaning, but it would rarely have been written down in formal letters
to and from the "honourable gentlemen" of the hansa league. Similarly,
"First come, first serve" is a widely used legal principle, but I
assume you won't find it very often in legal writs.<br>
<br>
Have a nice day!<br>
Sönke<br><br>---------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Phonology<br><br>Thanks, Sönke, for those excellent points!<br><br>Yes, <i>Boddem</i> ~ <i>Bodden</i> was an error on my part.<br><br>Kumpelmenten,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">