<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 30 June 2008 - Volume 08<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Culture" 2008.06.30 (03) [E]<br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: jonny <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>>></div><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span id="q_11adbcecdf886e4e_1" class="WQ9l9c">- Hide quoted text -</span></div><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
Subject: LL-L "Culture" 2008.06.29 (04) [E]<br><br>
Beste Marcus,<br>
in your last posting you quoted Ina Müller:<br>
> I actually think it is hip at the moment to boost cult icons. For
example the FC St. Pauli [local soccer club of Hamburg which has a
devoted<br>
> followership that tries to stand off the more mainstream Hamburger
SV]. Their T-shirts with the skulls and bones are a hit even in Denmark.<br>
> Or look at the band Fettes Brot. In their age group they are cult
just like the comic character Werner Beinhart for the older ones is.
And Low > Saxon too is in this category. That's shown by the
popularity of our shows. It's got a drive of it's own. Maybe cause it
feels younger and more > modern with us. Even the Ohnsorg-Theater
is playing more modern plays now.<br>
But the interview went on:<br>
*(quote)*<br>
_Question of the interviewer:_ "Der globalisierte Mensch auf der Suche
nach einer Heimat oder einer Abgrenzung?"["The globalized people
looking for a home or distinction?"]<br>
_Answer of Mr. Dibaba:_ "So hoch würde ich das nicht hängen.
Vielleicht ist es auch nur ganz schlicht ein Trend, mit dem sich gut
Geld verdienen lässt." ['I wouldn't overprice it. Perhaps it is just a
trend to earn good money."]<br>
*(unquote)*<br>
And that's it where 'our' Ina Müller is really capable- I have no doubt about it!<br>
But some doubts are coming when I hear her words imply that she grew up
with LS as her main language- she is born A.D 1965, and then even in
Köhlen (a village near Bremerhaven, Germany) people normally could
speak Standard German ;-)... Maybe she grew up within a mixture of LS
and Northern German dialect and just was unable to learn both languages:<br>
*(quote)*<br>
_Question:_<br>
Auffällig bei Ihnen beiden ist, dass Sie ausgerechnet mit einer Sprache
Karriere machen, die eigentlich als Karrierekiller gilt. Oder haben Sie
andere Erfahrungen gemacht? [For both of you it is noticeable that you
made your carreers with a language looked upon as a carreer killer. Or
did you make different experiences?]<br><br>
_Answer of Mrs. Müller:_<br><br>
Nicht wirklich. Als ich damals an die Schule im nächsten größeren Ort
_wechselte_, da war es für uns nach Kuhstall _stinkenden_ Dörfler, mit
Plattdeutsch _geschlagen_, nicht wirklich lustig. Das ist kein Vorwurf
an meine Eltern, um das gleich zu sagen, denen war es einfach egal, ob
ihre Kinder Plattdeutsch oder Hochdeutsch sprachen. Die haben über so
etwas gar nicht nachgedacht. Aber für ein Kind ist es schwierig,
_plötzlich_ Worte in einer Sprache zu schreiben, die _total fremd_ ist.
Ein Albtraum. [Not really. When I changed to a school in the
neighboured bigger village, it wasn't pleasant at all for us 'rednecks'
with the smell of cow stables, beaten with Low Saxon. I don't want to
blame my parents ...; they didn't mind us to talk either Low Saxon or
Standard German. They didn't make any thoughts about this. But for a
child it is really difficult to write abruptly in a totally strange
language. A nightmare.]<br><br>
*(unquote)*<br><br>
Vulgar, stupid and with some inconsistency, for my humble opinion.<br>
Once again Low Saxon gets moved into the 'Schmuddelecke' ['figurative
place for all that is considered dirty and taboo']. Or, not better but
sounding less cruel: Low Saxon just as a medium for 'Volksbelustigung'
['to make people laugh']!?<br>
But perhaps this curious and not at all new trend really will help to
renew Low Saxon in a very special way- "Geld regiert die Welt" ("money
rules the world")...<br>
Meanwhile I don't care about this any longer.<br>
Allerbest!<br>
Jonny Meibohm<br></div>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <mailto:</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Thanks, Jonny. I'm rather inclined to agree with your sentiments on the whole.<br>
<br>
I'm not in the business of trashing people, and I don't really know
very much about Ina Müller. However, I do know that an important part
of her shtik is abrasive, sharp-tongued, irreverent humor with strong
feminist overtones, sometimes spoofing "proper ladies." That's all fine
and dandy, and I approve of well-placed irreverent humor as long as it
is not mean-spirited and is not merely a put-on twist for cornering a
commercial market.<br>
<br>
Aside from what you wrote, Jonny, the interview left a weird taste in
my mouth with regard to Ina, a co-interviewee, sometimes taking on the
interviewer's role by asking Yared questions and then making what seem
like value judgments about his responses on top of it.<br>
<br>
Ina Müller:<br>
Moment, bevor Du weiter erzählst, wenn ich reinkomme und sage, Moin, Moin, dann sagst Du ...?<br>
Just a sec. Before you go on ... When I enter and say, "Moin, moin," you say ...?<br>
<br>
Dibaba:<br>
Atam!<br>
"Atam!"<br>
<br>
(I would have said, "Moin, moin!" if I were him.)<br>
<br>
Müller:<br>
Komisches Wort. Atam hört sich für mich nach Attacke an: Atam, Atam! Moin, moin ist viel schöner, runder.<br>
Weird word. "Atam" sounds like an attack: "Atam, Atam!" "Moin, moin" is much more beautiful, rounder.<br>
<br>
And the point is ...? What does this value judgment have to do with the
price of tea in China? "My language is prettier than yours"? In my
opinion, these interjections are inappropriate and aggressive and don't
exactly come across as informed. The introduction to the interview
talks about Yared Dibaba being used to dealing with "strong women" next
to him at work and being able to hold his own. I have no problem
whatsoever with "strong women" as long as they know what they are
talking about and don't act the fool.<br>
<br>
Dibaba:<br>
Und? Was willst Du uns damit sagen?<br>
So? What is it you're trying to say?<br>
<br>
Müller:<br>
Dass Moin sich schöner anhört, mehr nicht. ...<br>
That "Moin" sounds nicer. That's all. ...<br>
<br>
Good for him!<br>
<br>
Müller:<br>
Die Kombination ist aber auch zu nett: Ein Schwarzer, der im Norden eine Sendung moderiert, die "Die Welt op Platt" heißt.<br>
The combination is totally cute: a black man moderating a northern program called "Die Welt op Platt" ...<br>
<br>
No one asked you, Ina! Leave it to the readers to deal with their own prejudicial takes!<br>
<br>
Yared, who belongs to an Oromo refugee family from Ethiopia, talks
about challenges he faced in school, and Ina butts in again ...<br>
<br>
Müller:<br>
Du Armer! Und dann mit diesem Sprachengewirr. Das war aber auch ganz
schön gemein von Deinen Eltern, Dich überall hinzuschleppen und diesem
Sprachen-Babylon auszusetzen. ...<br>
You poor thing! And then this language jumble on top of it! It was
totally mean of your parents to drag you all over and expose you to
this Bable situation. ...<br>
<br>
Asked if he uses Low Saxon in everyday life ...<br>
<br>
Dibaba:<br>
In Hamburg macht das kaum noch jemand. Außerdem ist meine Frau
Portugiesin, mein ältester Sohn kommt auf eine deutsche Schule, und
wenn ich meine Leute treffe, dann sprechen wir Oromo. Plattdeutsch
brauche ich tatsächlich fast nur noch fürs Fernsehen. Aber Du träumst
doch wahrscheinlich sogar auf Platt, oder, Ina?<br>
Hardly anybody does so in Hamburg these days. Besides, my wife is
Portuguese, my oldest son is going to go to a German-speaking school,
and I speak Oromo when I get together with my people. I use Low Saxon
mostly on TV these days. I take it you dream in Low Saxon, Ina. Or?<br>
<br>
Müller:<br>
Stimmt. Vor allem aber denke ich auf Platt. Ich bin schließlich eine Frau.<br>
That's right. But most importantly, I /think /in Low Saxon. I'm a woman, after all.<br>
<br>
(Excuse me?! Perhaps she should stop making fun of ditsy women, unless she means to include herself.)<br>
<br>
Dibaba:<br>
Wie konnte ich vergessen: Ich denke nicht, also bin ich Mann. Danke für den Hinweis.<br>
How could I have forgotten that? I don't think; so me man. Thanks for the hint.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
</blockquote><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Well, it's rather simple. Ina Müller doesn't care about "political
correct and diplomatic talk". She just say's what she's feeling. Saying
"'Moin Moin' sounds nicer than 'Aram'" maybe is not politically correct
and not linguistically justifiable, cause every language is a system of
its own with very own rules about what words sound like attacks and
which do not. But Müller is not a linguist and not the secretary
general of the United Nations. There's no need for talking diplomatic.
She just said what the word sounded like for her. When she talks about
"nach Kuhstall _stinkende_ Dörfler", she does not say she thinks so,
but that she felt treated like that.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ina's humor indeed is sharp-tongued and she doesn't mince matters
("nimmt kein Blatt vor den Mund"), but she really is not abrasive or
irreverent. Have you ever seen "Land und Liebe" or "Inas Nacht"? She
does not hesitate to give somebody a bonk on the nose ("jemanden einen
Nasenstüber versetzen"), but she really does not put down anybody.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
She is honest and "free rut". I like her for that, cause many people
say nice words all day long, but don't care about their words. Ina does
not try to be everbody's darling by uttering nice words. She just tries
to be herself, no stuccoed facade, just Northern German brick.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
That's a typical villager feature in my opinion. Villagers don't know
"Grootsnutigkeit" (boastfullyness) and "Glattsnacken" (talking
sweet/toadying), they are more down to earth and honest and "free rut".
Well, of course there are Grootsnuten and Glattsnackers among the
villagers too and many honest and unboastful people in the cities, but
the city tends to be more aloof.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888">
<br>
Marcus Buck</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Culture</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks a lot, Marcus.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I sure appreciate your take on this (and you know more about Ina Müller than I do). I just went by what I read in the interview, and things like saying that refugee parents dragging their children all over Babylon are mean seems a bit ... well, dumb to me. No, one doesn't have to qualify for the post of UN Secretary General, but one can do just a bit of thinking before speaking. But perhaps I misunderstood it and it was meant to be some sort of joke that I don't get.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I see nothing wrong with irreverence, at least not well-place irreverence that that doesn't put people down and involves thinking and challenging the status quo.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"Free rut" is fine, especially at home where everyone pretty much thinks and acts the same. In this day and age of constant inter-cultural shoulder-rubbing, however, a modicum of tact and politeness is warranted, I feel. This has nothing to do with toadying, just as not making comments to people's faces about their looks, dress or ways of walking is not toadying. Also, I hardly think that diplomacy is by definition dishonest. It's a matter of restraint.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Anyway, it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding and misjudging this person. Who knows? Just for having said these things I might end up in one room with her someday ... At least then I'd find out.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In the meantime I watched a couple of videos of her performances, and it seems to me that she is a "typical" stand-up comedian, though with a singing twist, that </span><u style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">relies</u><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> on "naughtiness". In the US, imagine Cathy Griffin spiking her routines with songs.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">And here she claims that Low Saxon in not "a language in its own right" (</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">eine eigenständige Sprache</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">) but </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">eine eigene Fremdsprache</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> ("its own foreign language"):</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQR3BnfFgg&">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQR3BnfFgg&</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">