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L O W L A N D S - L - 12 August 2008 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mark Dreyer</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.11 (01) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear Ron:<br><br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Dear Lowlanders,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">If I
haven't truncated your brief below it is because it's so concise.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">You mention
among others the Old English 'ge', which allows me, I think, to broaden the
brief to consider those other prefixes of relationship as they are used in
Afrikaans, 'be-, ge-, her- er-, ont- & ver-'.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I see Old
Anglian texts in England
use them in much the same way, although the Anglo Saxon of Alfred & Cynwulf
does not to the same extent.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">May I note
that the Old English survives fossilised in the words 'aback, ajar, allow, etc'
together with others in the same line, 'beset, beribboned, because',
bewildered, & 'undertake & understand' (as apposed in the
lattermost case to under-achiever, under-pinnings & under-lie, in which the
first part actually means 'under')</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I am wondering
about the fate of the little old word <i>ja</i> and its relatives denoting
'and', 'yet', 'but', etc. What, if anything, has become of it in the modern
Germanic languages?<br>
<br>
Gothic <i>jah</i><br>
Old Saxon <i>ja</i><br>
Old English <i>ge</i><br>
Old Low Franconian: <i>joh</i><br>
Old German <i>ja</i><br>
Old Norse<i> ja</i><br>
<br>
Are Scandinavian <i>og</i>, <i>och</i> etc. for 'and' related to it?<br>
<br>
Is Finnic (at least Finnish, Estonian, Livonian and Votic) <i>ja</i> for 'and'
coincidental? Probably, since Veps has <i>da</i> and Karelian has <i>ta</i>,
and these seem to be related. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Mark</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Roland Desnerck</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:desnerck.roland@skynet.be">desnerck.roland@skynet.be</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.11 (01) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Beste Ron,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Ik denk dat de Scandinavische voegwoorden "ok",
"og" verwant zijn met Nederlands "ook" en Duits
"auch".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">We kunnen trouwens zeggen:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">En Piet go mee!<br>Ook Piet go mee!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Anderzijds: En Piet god ook mee!<br>Wij horen ook wel "oke" voor "ook". "Gie
oke?" Jij ook?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Als voegoord hoorden we vroeger ook wel:<br>Jan mé Piet: Jan en Piet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">"Mé" = met.<br>"Méd uus" = met ons.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Toetnoasteki,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Roland
Desnerck<br>West-Vlaanderen<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Diederik Masure</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.11 (01) [E]</span><br>
<br>
Norwegian/Danish 'og' and Swedish 'och' come from Old Norse 'ok', originally
the unstressed form of 'auk', cfr. Dutch 'ook'/German 'auch', meaning
"also", but in Old Norse also meaning "and". This word is
in its turn related to the Old Norse verb 'auka', modern Scandinavian
öka/øge/øke/auke etc. meaning 'to increase', Latin 'augere'. <br>
<br>
In older Old Norse 'auk' and 'ok' both occur, but later in time the unstressed
'ok' seems to take over generally. For the change of unstressed -k to -g, cfr.
the pronouns ek/jak, mik, sik etc. > eg/jeg/jag, meg/mig, seg/sig etc. <br>
<br>
The spelling with -ch in Swedish is just a fancy schmancy remnant of an older
spelling, I guess probably because the final -g once upon a time was pronounced
as a spirant. But in the compound "också" meaning "also"
(Norw./Danish "også" with g) it is written with -ck-.<br>
<br>
In most Norwegian and Swedish dialects it is pronounced as a long o (å), but in
Swedish standard speach the final ch may be pronounced, I think as /k/ (or
/g/?). In Danish I've always heard it with vocalised -g, sounding more or less
as "ow". <br>
In D and S og/och only means "and", where også/också has taken over
the other meaning "also", in Norwegian both uses occur. <br>
<br>
Helsing, Diederik<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Thanks, guys.<br>
<br>
And the mentioned Scandinavian words are, of course, related not only to West
Frisian <i>ek</i> 'also' but also to English "eke" (< <i>éaca</i>)
'addition', 'supplement', 'augmentation' (archaic), and "eke" (~
arch. <i>eche</i> < <i>écan</i>, <i>íecan</i>) 'to increase', 'to
supplement', 'to augment' (Old Saxon <i>ôkian</i>).<br>
<br>
Precontemporary Scots has both of these (spelled <i>eik,</i> <i>eyk</i>, <i>eike</i>, <i>eick</i>,
<i>eeke</i>, <i>ikke</i>, <i>eak</i>, etc.) as well as the adverb <i>eik</i> ~ <i>ek ~ eike
~ eyk</i> used pretty much like <i>ook</i> etc., meaning 'as well', 'also', but
apparently with the extra (original?) twist of "on top of it".* It
seems to have been archaic for a long time, for it appears mostly in poetry.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">* e.g. <i>His onlie child and <u>eik</u> his dochter deir</i></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Remembre
<u>eik</u> opone the sorow</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">My
hairt and mynd to the sall euer bend <br>And to thy lawis and statutis <u>eik</u>
attend</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Feille
folowit him on hors and <u>eik</u> on futte</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">A
king thair was sumtyme and <u>eik</u> a queene</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But what
about this vexing <i>ja(h)</i>?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
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