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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="PT-BR">===========================================</span><span style="" lang="PT-BR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="PT-BR">L O W L A N
D S - L - 30 August 2008 - Volume 02</span><span style="" lang="PT-BR"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: M.-L.
Lessing <<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="PT-BR">Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.30 (01)
[E]</span><span style="" lang="PT-BR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="PT-BR"> </span><span style="" lang="PT-BR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear Reinhard,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I have never heard "Er
is tot geblieben". In High German and Missingsch, this would sound very
strange, as if some contrasting case of a resurrection was kept in brackets:
"(Der is wieder lebendig geworden, aber) der is tot geblieben." In
Platt this thought has never occurred to me, but in Missingsch it would. In
Platt, I would instinctively write "doodblieven" un
"doodbleven" in one word, indicating the difference to not
resurrecting ("dood bleven"). -- Ordinarily Missingsch speakers say
"tot gegangen". Do you think that is derived from Platt "mit'n
Dood afgahn"? I think it is derived from "kaputt gegangen",
"verschütt gegangen" -- expressions that indicate a process (towards
a deplorable condition ;-))</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="DE">Gröten!</span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="DE"> </span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="DE">Marlou</span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"> </span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">----------</span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"> </span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject:
Idiomatica</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Thanks,
Marlou.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Ordinarily Missingsch speakers say "tot
gegangen". Do you think that is derived from Platt "mit'n Dood
afgahn"?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">No.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">I think it is derived from "kaputt
gegangen", "verschütt gegangen"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I consider
this most likely.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">One of the
reasons why I am interested in these expressions is that they remind me very
much of the use of certain verbs in the Altaic, especially Turkic languages.
(Not that I think there's a direct link, though.) Among the Turkic ones are <i>qal-</i>
("to remain"), <i>kät-</i> ("to go") and <i>tart-</i>
("to drag (into)") which as ordinary or auxiliary verbs come to
connote resulting permanent or temporary states, each with different shades of
meaning.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: Luc
Hellinckx <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject:
LL-L "Idiomatica"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Beste Ron,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">You wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
Has any of you ever encountered the Missingsch phrase /tot bleiben/? If so,
what variety is it?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Is it not
by accident in use among people who (strongly) believe in resurrection?
"Bleiben" seems to suggest that one thinks you can also be dead and
become alive again.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Kind
greetings,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Luc
Hellinckx</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>