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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 08 September 2008 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">E Zinsser</span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za">ezinsser@icon.co.za</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Names" 2008.09.07 (05) [E]</span><br>
<br>
Hey Ron and all,<br>
<br>
No, your are quite right. We do not have pog/ge meaning frog in
Afrikaans <br>
so it is clearly from LS. <br>
<br>
Elsie </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Names<br>
<br>
Elsie,<br>
<br>
I think we can safely assume that those names are Neerlandized Low Saxon
names,at least Poggenpoel, since (<i>pogge</i> >) <i>pog</i> 'frog' is Low
Saxon.Or is there a related word in Dutch and/or Afrikaans?<br>
<br>
I believe we once had a South African by the name of Swanepoel on the List.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Roland Desnerck</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:desnerck.roland@skynet.be">desnerck.roland@skynet.be</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Names" 2008.09.07 (05) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Beste Lowlanders, beste Elsie, Wofram...</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">"Zwaenepoel" is één van de meest voorkomende
namen in Oostende, Bredene, Klemskerke en omgeving. Eén van mijn buren heet
trouwens Zwaenepoel. Eén van mijn vrienden heet Willy Zwaenepoel...</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Overigens zijn er in Vlaanderen nog wat namen die
eindigen op -poel of -poels: Evenepoel, Brepoels, Herpoels.</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Ook kennen we ook Vandepoele en in het Brugse (de streek
van Brugge) de familienaam Van Poelvoorde.</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Een kikker, a frog, is overigens in het West-Vlaams:
"e puud". Vlakbij, in Oudenburg, is er een Puidebroeckstraat. Een
deuk, een slag, een stoot, kunnen bij ons ook "e pugge" genoemd worden.
Een eend is in het West-Vlaams: "en oande". </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Antepohl is volgens mij wel degelijk
"eendepoel".</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Toetnoasteki,</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Roland Desnerck</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="NL">West-Vlaanderen</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">burgdal32admin</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:burgdal32@telenet.be">burgdal32@telenet.be</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Names" 2008.09.07 (05) [E]</span></span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;" lang="NL"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;">Hi lowlanders,</span></span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="NL">In Flanders
(Belgium) the familyname of 'Swaenepoel / Zwaenepoel' is very common, mostly in
Western Flanders.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In the
website of familynames it reached over a thousand hits (there was only one
person named 'Zwanepoel').</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">The name
'Poel' also exist, more in the Limburg
region.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In the Netherlands i
just found the name 'Poel'.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Groetjes,</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Luc Vanbrabant</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Oekene</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"><br style="">
<br style="">
</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 5pt 0in 12pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;" lang="NL"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;">From: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(121, 6, 25);" lang="NL">Elsie Zinsser</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;" lang="NL"> <</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="NL">ezinsser@icon.co.za</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;" lang="NL">><br>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.09.06 (03) [E]</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Hi all,</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I suspect many folks took the pond names with when they immigrated
into southern Africa!</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Amongst our surnames are Poggenpoel and Swanepoel.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Elsie</span></p>
<p style="margin: 5pt 0in 12pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">From: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Wolfram Antepohl</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> <<a href="mailto:wolfram@antepohl.se" target="_blank">wolfram@antepohl.se</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Names"</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">[...] </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">I must have been a landscape full of ponds and pools at some time
considering all the "Gausepohls" (goose ponds),
"Poggenpohls" (frog ponds), "Swahnepohls" (swan ponds) and
even "Krakenpohls" (crow ponds - they must have been running out of
water animals).<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Names<br>
<br>
Elsie,<br>
<br>
I think we can safely assume that those names are Neerlandized Low Saxon names,
at least Poggenpoel, since (<i>pogge</i> >) <i>pog</i> 'frog' is Low Saxon.
Or is there a related word in Dutch and/or Afrikaans?<br>
<br>
I believe we once had a South African by the name of Swanepoel on the List.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Luc Hellinckx</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Names"</span><br>
<br>
Beste Ron,<br>
<br>
You wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
I think we can safely assume that those names are Neerlandized Low Saxon names,
at least Poggenpoel, since (/pogge/ >) /pog/ 'frog' is Low Saxon. Or is
there a related word in Dutch and/or Afrikaans?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Errr...all distant cousins: pogge (LS) ~ frog (E) ~ Frosch (G) ~ vors (B) =
"the hopper". By the way, "frog" must once have been a
derogatory term for the Dutch (frog-land = marshy land).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
I believe we once had a South African by the name of Swanepoel on the List.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Swaenepoel/Zwaenepoel seems very typical for Western Flanders (> <a href="http://www.familienaam.be/" target="_blank">www.familienaam.be</a>).<br>
You mentioned "Krakenpohl" earlier on. Are you sure you didn't mean
"Kranepohl"? I didn't find any "Krakenpohl" on the
"geogen"-site.<br>
<br>
Yes indeed, them Lowlands must have been very swampy back in the days. In the
13th century, most family names in the Probstei (Schleswig-Holstein) were
related to boggy conditions:<br>
<br>
/Brookmann, Broocks, Finen, Kelle, Pohlemann, Rodde, Sode, Sump, Zole/<br>
<br>
The dtv-atlas of "Namenkunde" gives this:<br>
<br>
<i>Unter den Wörtern für Sumpf findet sich im Süden am häufigsten *Moos*, vgl.
die vielen bair. /Moser, Moosbrugger, Rohrmoser/.<br>
Nach Norden zunehmend herrscht *Bruch*, niederdt. *Brook*. Dazu gehören die<br>
/Wilden-, Sauer-, Gosebruch ('Gänsetümpel'), Bruchheuser, Uhlenbruck, Bräucker,
Brauckoff, Breukelgen, Bro(o)ck, Papen-, Buddenbrook, Brock(er), Broek, Brockhaus,
-hagen, Brokamp, Bröckmann, Elschen-, Hellenbroich./<br>
Weniger häufig zeigen sich in Familiennamen die Wörter *Pfuhl* mit<br>
/Pfuhler, Pfuller, Puhl(e)mann, Pohlschröder, Krane-, Otterpohl, Poggenpohl/
('Froschtümpel')<br>
oder *Moor* (/Upmoor, Mohrhoff, Morsch, Mörsch(ner)) oder schwäb. /*Motz*/
'Sumpf; Schmutz' (Mot(t)z(h)art/).<br>
</i></span><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">Die regionale Verbreitung der Flurnamen *Venn* 'Sumpf'
und *Strut* 'Sumpf, feuchte Niederung, Wald u.a.' entspricht der Verbreitung
der Familiennamen (Abb. C).<br>
/Fenn(mann), Fehn(emann), van der Venn, Venhuis, Diepeveen, bzw. Testr(e)te,
Ströder, Strudt-, Strot(h)mann, -hoff/.<br>
Im Süden viel verbreiteter als im Norden ist *Brühl*, zunächst 'bewässerte
Wiese' u.ä. vgl.<br>
/Brühl(er), Brügel(mann), Breu(e)l, Breuler, Bri(e)gel, Brö(h)l(ing), Broil,
Brüll(er), Briel, Prill, Bröll(mann), Bröglhoff, Prügl(maier), Prieglhuber/.</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"><br>
<br>
...name too of our famous Brabantish family of painters "Brueg(h)el"
and of Nobel Prize winner "Louis de Broglie"...which brings me to
French "breuil":<br>
<i><br>
Provenç. bruelh, bruoil ; anc. ital. broglio, bruolo ; bas-latin, brogilus et
broilus, dans les Capitulaires. </i></span><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR">La forme brogilus indique un
radical brog, qu'on trouve dans le celtique : kymri, brog, élévation,
gonflement, signification qui a de l'affinité avec celle de bourgeonner. Le
sens de bourgeonner est dans le portugais a-brolhar, et celui de se soulever
dans l'italien broglio, révolte. Diez remarque que, si le mot est celtique, il
a du moins reçu une empreinte germanique, l'affixe il (brog-il) ne pouvant être
qu'allemand ; aussi signale-t-il le verbe allemand brogen, se soulever. Breuil
est, en France, le nom de plusieurs localités, et Dubreuil un nom propre fort
répandu.</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In short: the root may
be Celtic, but the suffix is Germanic.<br>
<br>
Kind greetings,<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Luc Hellinckx</span><br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
<span style="color: black;"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Names<br>
<br>
Thanks, everyone. And it's both of our Lucs in one issue! Nice!<br>
<br>
Luc (H), it was Wolfram that mentioned Krakenpohl.</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;"><br style="">
<br style="">
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;">Names with "pool" seem
to be a western feature, going as far east as Westphalia. Or?</span><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;"><br style="">
<br style="">
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;">I have come across the name Pool
in North America. I wonder if it's British
originally or if it's adapted Dutch (Poel).<br>
<br>
My maternal grandfather's name is Brookmann. He was from the western part of Western
Pomerania, close to the island
of Rugia (<i>R</i></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><i>ü<span style="color: black;"><span style="border-spacing: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;">gen</span></span></i><span style="color: black;">). In Low
Saxon pronunciation the "oo" stands for a diphthong as in English
"broke". It corresponds to "au" (pronounced as in
"brow") in some dialects. In fact, at one point we had a Brauckmann
on the List, and he was from Westphalia.<br>
<br>
Names with "pool", "pond", "swamp" and such seem to be
plentiful in the old Lowlands, as Luc (H)
points out. <i>Brook</i>, which is related to English "brook," fits
in in that it denotes grassy wetland along a brook or rivulet.<br>
<br>
It all could simply be a case of areal spread of names, or it could be a case of
more intricate migration patterns. Bear in mind that Dutch, Flemish and other
Low Frankish people moved eastward with Saxon and German (other Frankish)
people to colonize the then mostly Slavic- and Baltic-speaking east, some,
especially people from what today are the Netherlands, settling in the western
parts of what now is Northern Germany as well. Also, Saxon people periodically
migrated westward, especially onto the West Flemish coast. Names probably came
to be nativized in the process (which also happened to Scottish names in Western Prussia). And we mustn't forget all the
"Flemish" people that settled in Britain,
especially in Wales and Scotland.
Furthermore, enough British people lived in the Continental Lowlands to warrant
building their own facilities, such as their own, now quite old English church
in Amsterdam (one of Amsterdam's oldest buildings, originally known as Scots Kirk in Amsterdam beginning in 1607: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Reformed_Church,_Amsterdam">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Reformed_Church,_Amsterdam</a>).
Probably not all of them returned to Britain, and many of them ended up
being absorbed into the general population. My point is that there has been a
fair bit of mixing for a long time, even if we don't talk about overseas
migration.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br><br>* We should have an article about the English Reformed Church of Amsterdam in our Travel and History presentation series. The church was used, among others, by the "pilgrims" (including those of the Mayflower) on their way to North America.</span></span><br>
</p>
</div>