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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">==========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 05 October 2008 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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===========================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span>
<<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.04 (02) [E]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">from
heather <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Jorg wrote</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">porc
swin </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">boeuf
neat, oxa, cu</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR">veau
cealf</span><span style="" lang="FR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR">venaison heorot
(M.E. dere)</span><span style="" lang="FR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR">mouton
sceap</span><span style="" lang="FR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR">agneau
lamb</span><span style="" lang="FR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="FR">chèvre
geiz</span><span style="" lang="FR"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">poule
cicen</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I have
often wondered whether the fact that there is no difference in name
between the animal and the meat was an indication that 'lamb' and 'chicken'
were NOT eaten as meats by our medieval forefathers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">It might
have been too wasteful to eat a lamb when it could easily feed many more people
after a breeding / shearing life and then be known as 'mutton'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Similarly a
chicken produced eggs and so was not destined early in its life to the pot. I
keep my hens until they die of old age c 4-5 years and can promise you that
even long slow cooking would produce little of value besides stock!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But we did
share the word 'capon' which was a castrated cock destined for the table. In
our readings of medieval rents capons are frequently mentioned as due as part
payment - to be handed over to the Bishop's cook on a specific day!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Also just
to note that we did take on an element of the French ' poule' in the word
'poultry' and 'poult' which I have just learnt is the correct name for the
young of domestic fowl ( I call them chicks!) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">re folio /
feuille / Blatt / leaf etc</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I don't see
why two different languages cannot share the same visual concept for the same
item however real or abstract. That a sheet of paper should remind all these
languages of a large leaf doesn't surprise me at all.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I have
always be intrigued by the relationship of telling / recounting a story</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">e.g.
conter/raconter erzählen all these have to do with NUMBERS!
& counting</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Where is
the link?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Heather<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike Morgan</span> <<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.04 (03) [E]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Luc wrote:<br>
<br>
> Aaah: "taxonomy"! Maybe it's time that the cladistic method
finds its way in<br>
> linguistics. It got popular in biology because evolution is seriously
taken<br>
> into account (rather than "similarity"). Analysis is
quantitative and done<br>
> through computers, but unfortunately very labor-intensive due to an<br>
> algorithm, being NP-hard.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Actually,
the cladistic method HAS found its way into linguistics. Don<br>
Ringe, Tandy Tarnow and Ann Taylor have been using it in language tree<br>
reconstruction since at least the 1990's. Why, little ole me even used<br>
it in a series of papers (two papers, DOES a series make, right?) one<br>
reconstructing the Japanese Sign Language family tree (including Seoul<br>
Korean Sign language, Taipei Taiwanese Sign Language, 4 diaects of<br>
modern Japanese Sign Language and older records for Tokyo dialect),<br>
and also one reconstructing where Bolivian Sign Language fits in the<br>
American Sign language tree... The jury (the larger<br>
historical-comparative linguistics community of researchers) is still<br>
out on the method though.<br>
<br>
regards<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">--<br>
Mike || </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">マイク</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">माईक</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">|| Мика || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Shruti; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="GU">માઈક</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="GU"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">|| </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Sylfaen; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">მაიქ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Raavi; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="PA">ਮਾਈਕ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="PA"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">|| </span><span dir="rtl" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HE">מייק</span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span> || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Latha; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="TA">மாஇக்</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
|| <span dir="rtl" lang="AR-SA">ما یک</span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span> || Mihangel ================ Dr Michael W
Morgan Managing<br>
Director Ishara Foundation Mumbai (Bombay), India ++++++++++++++++<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">माईकल</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">मोर्गन</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> (</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">पी</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">एच</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">डी</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">.) </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">मेनेजिंग</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">डॉयरेक्टर</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">ईशारा</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">फॉउंडेशन</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> (</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI">मुंबई</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="HI"> )</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
++++++++++++++++ </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">茂流岸マイク</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">(</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">言語学博士</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">)
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">イシャラ基金の専務理事</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: PMingLiU; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">・</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">事務局</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">長</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">ムンバイ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">(</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">ボンベイ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">)</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="ZH-CN">、インド</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Stan Levinson</span>
<<a href="mailto:stlev99@yahoo.com">stlev99@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.04 (03) [E]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Mike,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Oh, Mike,
get yourself to a decent Chinese vegetarian restaurant and you'll discover how
delicious bitter melon (kugua in Chinese, literally "bitter" +
"melon/gourd") can be.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Stan</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: <span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike Morgan</span> <<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com" target="_blank">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.04 (02) [E]<br>
<br>
Yes, of course one wonders if, EVEN to the Japanese mind the bitter<br>
gourd (</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">苦瓜</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> /nigauri/, quite literally </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">苦</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> = bitter + gourd </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">瓜</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">) is<br>
"related" to the water melon (</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">西瓜</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> /suika/, literally Western = </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">西</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> +<br>
gourd </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">瓜</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">)?<br>
<br>
To me they are miles apart. And the former preferably miles from my<br>
plate! (Though I will readily admit to not knlwing how to fix it, I<br>
guess to my taste noone who has ever served it to me knows how to fix<br>
it.)<br>
<br>
And as for what R/R notes about "people that try it for the first time</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 59.75pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">tend to be horrified if they are not "mentally
prepped" but expect a</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">certain taste because of the name "melon"), it
reminds me of my wife's<br>
story of her travels in Ladakh and her initial response to ubiquitous<br>
Tibetan tea ... which is salty and has yak's butter in it. She just<br>
could NOT get it to go down ... until she decided that she just needed<br>
to think of it as Tibetan soup. Then it went down just fine!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: R. F.
Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Lexicon<br>
<br>
Hi, Heather!<br>
<br>
You wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">I have often wondered whether the fact that
there is no difference in name between the animal and the meat was an
indication that 'lamb' and 'chicken' were NOT eaten as meats by our medieval
forefathers.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">It might have been too wasteful to eat a lamb
when it could easily feed many more people after a breeding / shearing life and
then be known as 'mutton'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Good point.
But what about veal then?<br>
re folio / feuille / Blatt / leaf etc</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">I don't see why two different languages cannot
share the same visual concept for the same item however real or abstract. That
a sheet of paper should remind all these languages of a large leaf doesn't
surprise me at all.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">I have always be intrigued by the relationship
of telling / recounting a story</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">e.g. conter/raconter
erzählen all these have to do with NUMBERS! & counting</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Where is the link?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
More good points. But rather than suspecting coincidental concepts I'd still suspect
spread resulting in areal features, alternatively a much older stratum in Indo-European
development. Traces of the "tell" <> "count" link are found in Slavic as well
(e.g., Russian <i>считать</i>).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Stan:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Oh, Mike, get yourself to a decent Chinese
vegetarian restaurant and you'll discover how delicious bitter melon (kugua in
Chinese, literally "bitter" + "melon/gourd") can be.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Quite so, daddy-o. Or have Uncle R/R cook some for you sometime. And we won't call it
"melon" then.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">When I lived
in China
(before the economic boom) you could not get coffee outside foreigners' hotels and
clubs in the large cities, and most Chinese (who did not have access to such places) had never tasted them. So when I visited a Dungan (Hui, "Chinese Muslim") tea house
I was delighted to see a sign saying 咖啡茶 <span style=""></span>(<i>kāfēichá</i>) and 可可茶 (<i>kěkěchá</i>), literally "coffee tea" and "cocoa
tea" respectively, suggesting coffee and cocoa (hot chocolate). They turned out
to be very, very weak solutions prepared in the East Asian tea brewing manner,
the default manner in China.
For one expecting Western-style coffee and cocoa it was a real let-down. But I came
to accept them by thinking of them as "coffee tea" and "cocoa tea" respectively, different
"creatures".<br><br>Names <i>are</i> important.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
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