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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 05 October 2008 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 148, 134);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe">
</span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.03 (02) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In the case
of English, there seem to have been a lot of "twin-words" in the
native Germanic, even before the French-speakers arrived: bird/fowl, tree/beam,
hound/dog etc. Some have since aquired rather different meanings over time
(tree/beam), but I wonder if this duality made English more receptive to
borrowing when the later languages came? Old English peakers presumably had no
problem with same thing having two or three different names.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Paul<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.05 (01) [E]</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 6.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Heather, you wonder about conter/raconter: D tellen/vertellen</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 6.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> I
have always be intrigued by the relationship of telling / recounting a story</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 6.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">e.g.
conter/raconter erzählen all these have to do with NUMBERS!
& counting</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 6.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Where
is the link?</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 6.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Maybe</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> <span style="color: blue;">that is</span> <span style="color: blue;">to be found a very
long time ago, when reading, writing, and counting still were considered
"Magics"</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 6.2pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">and only our shaman (men mans?) could perform those for us.
Jacqueline</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mike Morgan</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.05 (01) [E]</span><br>
<br>
Stan suggested:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> get yourself to a decent Chinese vegetarian restaurant
and you'll<br>
> discover how delicious bitter melon (kugua in Chinese, literally
"bitter" +<br>
> "melon/gourd") can be.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Yes, well,
18 years in Japan, and now
in India
... am not sure a<br>
"decent" Chinese restaurant (and in Japan most certainly NOT a<br>
vegetarian one) is to be found in either. ... And in fact, I probably<br>
HAVE eaten kugua and LOVED it (in a Beijing
vegetarian restaurant ...<br>
or maybe in San Francisco or New
York China
town) ... but didn't know<br>
it was the same "animal".<br>
<br>
And as for R/R's</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> have Uncle R/R cook some for you sometime.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I assume he
means "uncle" in the Indian English sense of the term,<br>
meaning a male old enough to have gray in his whiskers but quiet<br>
possibly much younger than oneself and also possibly NOT ones parent's<br>
brother.<br>
<br>
> Names are important.<br>
<br>
Most decidedly so!<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Wolfram Antepohl</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:wolfram@antepohl.se">wolfram@antepohl.se</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.05 (01) [E]</span><br style="">
<br style="">
<span style="color: black;"></span></span></p>
<span style="word-spacing: 0px;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">I
have always be intrigued by the relationship of telling / recounting a story</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">e.g.
conter/raconter erzählen all these have to do with NUMBERS!
& counting</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Where
is the link?</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Heather</span></p>
</span><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span><span style="word-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">More good points. But rather than suspecting
coincidental concepts I'd still suspect spread resulting in areal features,
alternatively a much older stratum in Indo-European development. Traces of the
"tell" <> "count" link are found in Slavic as well
(e.g., Russian <i>считать</i>).</span></p>
</span><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br></div><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><p class="MsoNormal"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
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</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Hi Heather
and Ron!</span></p>
<p></p></span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I have been
wondering about that quite a lot. he connection between "telling" and
"counting" is obvious in many Germanic, Romanic and other IE
languages although it seems hidden in English. However, in the Online Etymology
Dictionairy I found this:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">tale Look
up tale at Dictionary.com</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
O.E. talu "story, tale, the action of telling," from P.Gmc.
*talo (cf. Du. taal "speech, language"), from PIE base *del- "to
recount, count." The secondary Eng. sense of "number, numerical
reckoning" (c.1200) probably was the primary one in Gmc., cf. teller (see
tell) and O.Fris. tale, M.Du. tal "number," O.S. tala
"number," O.H.G. zala, Ger. Zahl "number." The ground sense
of the Mod.Eng. word in its main meaning, then, might have been "an
account of things in their due order." Related to talk and tell. Meaning
"things divulged that were given secretly, gossip" is from c.1350;
first record of talebearer "tattletale" is 1478.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">"An
account of things in their due order" seems to be a great summary. N.B.
that even "account" and "order" comprize both language and
mathematics. It seems as if our IE ancestors did not really see them as
different concepts yet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Greetings</span></p>
<span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"></span></span></div>