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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 17 October 2008 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"><a href="mailto:ipm7d@oi.com.br">ipm7d@oi.com.br</a></span></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear
Reinhard,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Thank you for the answer, and congratulations on your site.<br>
It's like very helpful for us living outside the Lowlands
because whe<br>
can get in touch with the language.<br>
There are a few Dutch citizens still living here in my town but they<br>
only speak Standard Dutch, like Father Hofstead, a friend of mine.<br>
My state, Pernambuco was conquered by the Dutch some centuries
ago,<br>
and they left some herritage before being sent away by the Portuguese.<br>
Some linguistics say that our final "r" pronunciation is derived from<br>
their own. There are many street names in many towns called Mauricio de<br>
Nassau. He gave Olinda
it's name. It sounds a little like Holanda, the<br>
Pg. word for The Netherlands.<br>
Well,<br>
God bless,<br>
Beste regards,<br>
<br>
Ívison.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Mensagem
Original:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Data:
15:40:38 16/10/2008<br>
De: Lowlands-L List <<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">lowlands.list@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>
Assunto: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="wq9l9c"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span id="q_11d07a7cf478daaf_1">- Show quoted text -</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 16 October 2008 - Volume 06<br>
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<br>
<br>
From: Ivison dos Passos Martins <<a href="mailto:ipm7d@OI.COM.BR" target="_blank">ipm7d@OI.COM.BR</a>><br>
Subject: Linguistics Plattdüütsche<br>
<br>
Dear friends,<br>
<br>
I've been studying a little Plattdüütsche , thanks to<br>
<a href="http://lowlandsl.net/grammar/" target="_blank">lowlandsl.net/grammar/</a>
and I'd like to know how to differ the neuter<br>
article "dat" from the demonstrative "dat". How would a
native say the<br>
house and that house? Is the distinction only in saying dat daar Huus?<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
see you.<br>
<br>
Ívison<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Grammar<br>
<br>
Moin, Ívison!<br>
<br>
Since the website you mentioned is mine, I will answer first. Others may<br>
give you different answers.<br>
<br>
And please be aware that I am working on a new and much improved English<br>
version which is temporarily posted here:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/grammar-new/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/grammar-new/</a><br>
<br>
I had hoped to make some more progress on it this month, but all sorts of<br>
other things have been interfering with it.<br>
<br>
Anyway, in most Northern Low Saxon (Low German) dialects there are five uses</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">of
d*at*:<br>
<br>
- neuter definite article (corresponding to *it* and *et* in other<br>
dialects, Dutch *het*, German *das*)<br>
- neuter personal pronoun ('it', Dutch *het*, German *es*), having<br>
replaced earlier *it* and *et* which survive in some dialect<br>
- neuter demonstrative ('that', Dutch *dat*, German *das*)<br>
- relative pronoun or adverb ('that', Dutch *dat*, German *dass*)<br>
<br>
Since the older demonstrative *dat* has replaced the older neuter article *<br>
it* ~ *et*, the difference in use can only be told by context and<br>
intonation; e.g.<br>
<br>
*dat huus* 'that house' (aquela casa)<br>
*dat huus* 'the house'' (a casa)<br>
<br>
Where demonstration needs to be clarified or emphasized you can add<br>
*daar*'there', e.g.<br>
<br>
*dat daar huus * (aquela casa)<br>
*dat huus daar * (aquela casa)<br>
<br>
both meaning 'that house (there)' (or 'that thar house' in some English<br>
dialects).<br>
<br>
Similarly, in the case of demonstrative pronouns *daar* can be added for<br>
clarity or emphasis:<br>
<br>
*Is dat (daar) dyn huus?* 'Is that your house (there)?'<br>
*Nee, dat daar.* 'No, that (over) there.'<br>
<br>
I hope this answered your question, Ívison.<br>
<br>
Kumpelmenten,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Jonny</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Beste
Ivison,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">you seem to
make advantage in your studies.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Reinhard
already answered to your question, very precisely and completely as usual.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Perhaps I
could add, that often it is possible to strengthen a demonstration pronoun by
emphasising its pronunciation, as well as you might know it from other
languages. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Allerbest!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Jonny
Meibohm</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">M.-L.
Lessing</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Grammar" 2008.10.16 (06) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear
Ívison,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I have
heard "dat Hus dor" as well as "dat dore Hus". In the first
case the house must be visible, you practically point at it. In the second
case, the house may be a house only spoken of, or something long ago; it
is more like "jenes Haus". -- Dear Reinhard: Is "dore" in
"dat dore Hus" or in "de doren Tieden" an adjective, to be
used like "dat grote Hus" or "de olen Tieden"? Is there any
better way to say "jener, jene, jenes" op Platt?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Hartlich!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Marlou</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Grammar<br>
<br>
Thanks, Ívison.<br>
<br>
Please note my dear friends Jonny and Marlou's important notes above. Special
thanks go to Marlou for reminding us of the adjectival form of <i>daar</i>
(there) in some dialects, as in <i>dat dare huus</i> ("that there{-e}
house") in many dialects.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
<br>
Just back from 16 hours in a hospital emergency room, filled with numerous
tests and morphene refuge after several days' of a unbelievable pain in the neck (and
head) and completely sleepless nights (in Seattle). After two incorrect ones,
the correct diagnosis arrived less than one hour before the visible tell-tale
signs of an extreme form of shingles (<i>Herpes zoster, gordelroos,
Gördelroos', Gürtelrose, helvedesild, zona, culebrilla, cobrão, cobreiro,
półpasiec, опоясывающий лишай</i>, </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">帯状疱疹</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">), the evil twin of chickenpocks. Oh, the pain! Oh, the misery! Oh,
the humanity!</span></p>
</div>