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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 23 October 2008 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Diederik Masure</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.10.20 (06) [E/LS]</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">RE: Lucas</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I saw a lot has been answered on this already so I hope I'm not repeating
anyone. <br>
<br>
I repeated your searches on fortvinne and fordvinne, since I've never heard
these words in Norwegian either. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DA">Strange that they have so few hits, the
only fortvinne one:<br>
"Fristilt er nok å ta litt i, de førstnevnte er degreadert til andrelaget,
men det er et tydelig tegn på at de kan fortvinne billig ja."<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From the site or RBK -
the Trondheim
football team. Here the meaning could be something similar to 'forsvinne', but
the fact that all the rest is written in Bokmàl is a bit strange, that this
would be the only dialect word - especially if it's such a rare dial. word that
it's the only occurrence of this on the whole net! In written languages dialect
words/constructions can of course slip through, but usually that happens with
very frequent words because then the writer might not know it's actually not
standard language. <br>
Maybe a miswriting for something else? <br>
"fordviner" with one n (as we would expect from Dutch 'verdwijnen')
gives only one hit either - strange. There's another hit, which is Danish. <br>
"Leddsmertene kan
plutselig <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">fordvinne</span></strong> fra
den ene dagen til den andre" - the only hit on fordvinne, but again
clearly standard language and the meaning clearly corresponds. More hits with
-r though. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I suspect it to be a loan
from Low German/Dutch through the Danish written language - that's why it
probably is a bit old fashioned nowadays, so only used humourously or with a
formal connotation. Danish "fordvinde" gave 3 hits. (Danish changes
most written -nn- into -nd-), fordvinder 8 hits. So the one 'fortvinne' hit was
probably a miswriting of 'fordvinne'. <br>
<br>
Strange enough not even my Rigsmàlsordbogen (old fashioned Bokmàl) gives
fordvinne. But I found an Old Norse word "dvína" attested. <br>
I'll ask my Norwegian gf (from Bergen) if she's ever heard of any of these
words, though<br>
<br>
One last thing you should know tho, the roots of (for)svinne and (for)dvinne
are not at all related, it is not a case of High German shift vs. unshifted.
DWINA is, according to the Dutch etym. dictionary, remotely related to
"dead" (so must be a root "DW" giving dw-ein-anan and
dow-d-os with ablaut). <br>
(ver)zwinden, which also exists in Dutch, has to do with zwaaien, zweep,
zwieren etc, none of which are a loan from German<br>
<br>
Diederik</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: LUCAS ANNEAR <<a href="mailto:annear@wisc.edu" target="_blank">annear@wisc.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Lowlanders,<br>
<br>
Today in Norwegian lecture we were discussing some new vocabulary, and amongst
them was "forsvinne", 'to disappear'. I asked my professor if
she knew of any any (dialectal) variations of the word that used 'fordvinne' or
maybe even 'fortvinne' (to find out if any coronal stop was to be found instead
of 'svinne'). She wasn't aware of any, but knowing Du. 'verdwijnen' and
Fris. 'ferdwine', I thought there must be some variation. And of course,
a quick Google search for "fordvinne" and "fordvinner"
(inflected) gave me some results (as did a search for 'fortvinne' but I wasn't
able to decide if it was the same; nothing came up for 'fortvinner').<br>
<br>
Would anybody be able to enlighten me as to why we find 'forsvinne' in the
dictionaries but not 'fordvinne'? The Norwegian "Lexin" had
nothing for "fordvinne", and neither did Haugen's Norwegian - English
dictionary. Is it just the case that the High German form is used more?
Is 'fordvinne' used mainly in the west (Bergen and other Hansa cities)? Thanks
a lot.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Luke Annear</span></p>