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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 15 November 2008 - Volume 04<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "History" 2008.11.15 (03) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> Subject: History</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> Tom
Carty wants me to pass some information on to you. I cannot enclose it here
because of copyright reasons and because attachments are rejected by the
server.*</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">A similar
collection of coins was found in the Tongeren area (actually in Heers)
about 5 years ago. The new one in Maastricht
is the first collection of that size for the Netherlands.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://users.telenet.be/sabrinagijbels_dekelten/Paginas/09_00_Vondsten.htm" target="_blank">http://users.telenet.be/sabrinagijbels_dekelten/Paginas/09_00_Vondsten.htm</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://www.oud-limburg.be/art10-1.html" target="_blank">http://www.oud-limburg.be/art10-1.html</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">About half
of the coins in both cases (Heers and Maastricht)
belong to the Eburons. The others are not identified in the newspapers, some
sources refer to the Rhine area or to the Batavi for the finding in Maastricht.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">There are a
couple of odd things:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">1 - The <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Eburons</span></strong> are often identified as
Germanic. However they had <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Celtic names</span></strong>,
as e.g. their leader <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Ambiorix</span></strong></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">2 -
Officially the whole tribe was murdered by Ceasars troup's. Soon afterwards a
new tribe appears: the <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Tungri.</span></strong></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">It is not
clear whether the Tungri were a immigrated tribe or the former Eburon tribe
with a new name.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">3 -
Ceasar's army was defeated by the Eburons in <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Atuatuca</span></strong>. About 50 years later one finds a town <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Atuatuca Tungrorum</span></strong> (the actual
Tongeren in Belgium).
Historians never were able to prove whether or not both Atuatuca's were at the
same place.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">4 - Many
references to soldiers from the <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Tungri</span></strong>
tribe, serving in the Roman army, are found all over England (cf.
Archeological collections)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">5 - The
extend of the Roman <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Civitas Tungrorum</span></strong>
district is generally considered to coincide with the bishopric of Tongeren
-> Maastricht -> Liège (The bishop had to move two times).Roughly, before
the 16th century the extend included the provinces of Limburg, Liège and the
East of Antwerp in Belgium, as wel as Limburg and the Center-East of
Noord-Brabant in the Netherlands and the town of Aachen.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">6 -
The <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Town of Tongeren
area</span></strong> penetrated as a kind of peninsula of the principality of
Liège into the county
of Loon. While the
justice system of Loon was "reichsunmittelbar" even when the county
itself became a fief of Liege, Tongeren always belonged to Liège for justice.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">That area
has a <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">very districtive Limburgish
dialect</span></strong> (Tongerlands or Tungerländisch). Some linguists think
it has been germanized later tha the Loon area.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">7 - As far
as I can trace (16th century) all my ancestors are from that area.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">A year ago
I had my total DNA (all chromosomes) analysed by "Anchestry by DNA".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">They found</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">100%
European</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">0%
Sub-Sahara African</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">0% East
Asean</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">0% Native
Amercan</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">and a
further split up of the European part (called Euro_DNA)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">75% <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Northern European</span></strong> (with margin of
error 60 to 88 %)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">18 % Middle
Eastern (with margin of error 8 to 29 %)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">4%
Southeastern European (with margin of error 0 to 21 %)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">3% South
Asean (with margin of error 0 to 16 %)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I also had
Y (father-father line) and mtDNA (mother-mother line) done separatedly by
both "Oxford Ancestors" and "Family tree DNA".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">My Y
refers to the people of the paleolitic "<strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Aurignacian</span></strong>" culture, compatible with the
first Celtic tribes in Brittain of more than 9000 years ago.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">My mtDNA
refers to <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Tuscany </span></strong>of
about 17000 years ago.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Just the
latter two refer to very particular singular lines.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">The total
DNA (a mixture coming from all ancestors) though may be very similar for many
people of the area (since all know ancestors lived there).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I think
more people should get these tests done for allowing one to have a clear sight
on migration.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But I doubt
it helps to solve the question whether the <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Eburons</span></strong> were <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Celtic</span></strong>
or <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">Germanic.</span></strong></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Roger</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>