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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 16 November 2008 - Volume 07<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mike
Wintzer</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:k9mw@yahoo.com">k9mw@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language politics" 2008.11.14 (02)
[A/E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Hi
all,</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Have
to defend myself Ron. You wrote </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">I'm
from the Old Saxon region but not from Lower Saxony
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">For
me that's the same thing, although I know that LS also</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">has
a restricted administrative meaning.How can I ignore</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">that
you are from HH?????</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Paul
you write:</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> For
example, speakers of Geordie, Glaswegian or other strong regional dialects have
no problem with Standard English, but someone who only speaks the latter often
struggles with the local varieties. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Couldn't
this be a question of exposure? Dialect speakers get plenty</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">of
exposure to the Standard, but someone from another region might</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">hear
the "difficult" dialect for the first time. This, however, would not</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">explain
Ron's observation about Pennsylfanish and German because</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">usually
there is no previous exposure.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Just
crossed my mind when reading the continuing exiting exchanges.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Mike
Wintzer</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Language varieties<br>
<br>
Mike, I was being facetious about HH. You know me and my relationship with
political boundaries ...<br>
<br>
I do think that exposure plays an important role, and it seems to apply in the
case of Pennsylfanish as well: most speakers don't hear Standard German often,
while most people in Germany are used to dialect variety, including other Palatine
dialects, and these days most of them can deal with English loanwords in Pennsylfanish.<br>
<br>
Here are some sound clips of Pennsylfanish <i>Mother Goose</i> rhyme versions: <a href="http://www.pgs.org/dialect_audio.asp">http://www.pgs.org/dialect_audio.asp</a><br>
<br>
A written sample of the modern language (<a href="http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/">http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/</a>):</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: georgia,serif;"><strong><span style="" lang="DE">Deitsche Settelments vor
der Revolution</span></strong><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="" lang="DE"><span style="font-family: georgia,serif;">In der friehe Geschicht vun
America finne mer viel Deitsche. Des erscht Buch, wu in America rausgewwe iss
warre, iss gedruckt warre vum 'me Deitsche in 1544, Martin Cronberger, in der Schtadt
Mexiko. Peter Minuit, der erscht Gouverneur vun der Schtadt Neu Amsterdam, was
yetzt die grooss Schtadt New York iss, waar en Deitscher aus der Schtadt Wesel.
In 1638 hot er en latt Schwede an's Ufer vum Delaware Rewwer gebrocht. Er hot
de Insching en grooss Schtick Land abgekaaft vun Cape Henlopen bis naach dem
Trenton Wasserfall, un der Baerge, wu er mit den Insching gemacht hot, iss
niemols verletzt warre. Daniel Pastorius waar der Pionier der deitsche Settler
in unserem Land. Er iss im Yaahr 1683 naach America kumme un hot die Schtadt
Germantown bei Philadelphia ausgelegt.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">My (close) Standard German translation:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
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</p><p style="margin-left: 30pt; font-family: georgia,serif;"><strong>Deutsche Siedlungen vor der Revolution</strong></p>
<p></p><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: georgia,serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="DE">In der frühen Geschichte Amerikas finden wir viele
Deutsche. Das erste Buch, das in Amerika herausgegeben wurde, wurde 1544 von einem
Deutschen, Martin Cronberger, in der Stadt Mexiko gedruckt. Peter Minuit, der
erste Gouverneur der Stadt Neu-Amsterdam, welche jetzt die große Stadt New York
ist, war ein Deutscher aus der Stadt Wesel. 1638 brachte er etliche Schweden an
das Ufer des Delaware-Flusses. Er kaufte den Indianern ein großes Stück Land vun
Cape Henlopen bis zum Trenton-Wasserfall ab, und der Vertrag (?), den er mit den
Indianern geschlossen hatte, ist niemals verletzt worden. Daniel Pastorius war der
Pionier der deutschen Siedler in unserem Land. Er kam im Jahr 1683 nach Amerika
und plante die Stadt Germantown bei Philadelphia.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>