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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 20 November 2008 - Volume 02<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Luc Hellinckx</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language use"</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Beste Ron,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Or, you could just turn away from them and ignore them
if they ignore your objection. Of course this would make you seem rude, but
then again, </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">they</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> are rude.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Or, Diederik, very heavy-accented and Scots-infused Scottish English and see
them react to that.</span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Simple,
just answer in French. Not too many Northerners speak (good) French...and if
they do, there's a fair chance they may be ashamed of their own accent. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Mmm...guess
I'm wrong: a bashful Dutchman? Is that a contradictio in terminis? Or an
oxymoron? *s*</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Naah...quite
frankly: If you'd answer in French, I'm quite sure most would keep on
chattering in English. Yes folks, this is how "minor" languages
actually commit suicide...truth can be stranger than fiction. And true it is;
here in Brussels,
many French speakers would rather switch to English when addressing a Fleming
(even if they could get their act together in Dutch), than using Dutch. This is
what "status" and "losing face" is all about.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">On a more
positive note, one could also say that using a third language, both speakers
avoid having to bow. Using a third language they are both on foreign ground.
The problem is: If I was raised in the Randstad, totally accustomed to standard
Dutch, and I know that the one that I'm talking to primarily speaks dialect,
what can we do? The dialect speaker could try to find the middle way, using
some sort of "Missingsch", one would say in German. However, what can
the Randstad-guy do? I'm quite sure most cannot immediately change the register
and swap to artificial semi-dialect. So if he keeps on talking standard, while
at the same time the other guy is doing his best to make himself understood,
there'd be a significant advantage for the Randstedeling. Maybe that's why
unarming and using English can also be viewed like some sort of "necessary
evil".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Kind
greetings,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Luc
Hellinckx</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">E Zinsser</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za">ezinsser@icon.co.za</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language use" 2008.11.19 (01) [E]</span><br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
Heather, language block is the zenith of frustration! <br>
I go to swimming class every evening and there is a younger blonde woman whose
English is very clipped so I thought she could be Afrikaans speaking. But
it is now three weeks and I still speak in Afrikaans to her and she still
in clipped English although she speaks Afrikaans to her kids on the
cellphone! Agghhhh! <br>
<br>
Headshaking, <br>
Elsie Zinsser <br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jenny Kool</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:J.Kool@reginacoeli.nl">J.Kool@reginacoeli.nl</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language use" 2008.11.19 (04) [E]</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="NL">Heather, Diederik et al., </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="NL">In het taleninstituut waar ik werk, hoor ik dezelfde
verhalen, vooral van Engelstaligen die Nederlands leren bij ons. Een
'overlevingszin' die we hen leren te gebruiken is: "Ik versta geen Engels". Soms
helpt dat…</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="NL">@Diederik: ik schaam me bijna om Nederlander te zijn als
ik jouw verhaal lees, ik ben blij dat ik ver van Amsterdam woon. Maar om je
enigszins te troosten: als ik in Amsterdam kom en Nederlands praat in een café,
restaurant of winkel, word ook ik raar aangekeken en mijn Brabantse/Bossche
accent is helemaal niet sterk. Ik krijg dan altijd de neiging om het te
overdrijven en er wel Brabants tussendoor te gooien. De hoofdstedelingen denken
toch al dat wij 'reserve'-Belgen zijn (samen met de Limburgers). </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Houdoe </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Jenny Kool</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Helge Tietz</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:helgetietz@yahoo.com">helgetietz@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language use" 2008.11.19 (02) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Lowlanders, hi Diederik,<br>
<br>
I am wondering whether the person(s) serving were actually Dutch, recently we
have been served by waiters and bar keepers in Amsterdam who weren't Dutch and
didn't speak Dutch, so it might have been one of them or otherwise, there is a
tendency among younger Dutch people to show of with their English knowledge
(while pronouncing all Vs like F as e.g. "fisible" instead of
"visible", typical Amsterdam mispronunciation in English, a Fleming
would never do that) which I think is really ridiculous. If it happens to me
that someone doesn't (want) to speak Dutch and carries on in English I resolve
it by speaking in the harshest Geordie (the dialect of Newcastle-upon-Tyne) I
know to them which they then don't understand....that was the end of them
showing of....<br>
<br>
However, there is growing awareness that the Dutch people should continue using
Dutch whenever possible and also encouriging foreigners to learn the language,
perhaps less in Amsterdam
but certainly outside the official capital. Many of them actually regard
Flemish as the nicer and more correct way of "Dutch" and I also think
the sound of it is so much softer and polite, never give it up, Diederik! Then
again, among those you often run into disputes about the status of Frisian, Low
Saxon, Zeeuws and Limburgs because I believe they have the same rights to
preserve their language and culture as the "Dutch" have and I believe
at least Frisian should be displayed on multilingual anouncement boards in the
capital as well if it is supposed to serve as the capital of all
Netherlanders.... Why not Frisian beside English, French, Turkish, German and
Arabaic, why neglecting a crucial heritage and factor of Dutch culture? I have
recently downloaded the Frisian version of the Mozilla Firefox internet
browser, that is really a nice one, a good tool if you want to gain some
knowledge of Frisian!<br>
<br>
Gröten,<br>
Helge</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>