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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 25 November 2008 - Volume 07<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">===========================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"><br>
From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <<a href="mailto:Kreimer@jpberlin.de">Kreimer@jpberlin.de</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.11.25 (05) [E]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">Am 25.11.2008 um 19:35 schrieb Luc Hellinckx:</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">In Dutch,
"raggen" could mean:</span></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="color: black;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">to run to and fro</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color: black;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">to rock </span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color: black;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">the f-word...no, it's not
"forgiveness"</span></li></ul>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">There's a relatively popular band in the Netherlands
called "De Raggende Manne" for example. Strikes me that a number of
musical styles are named along the pattern r+e/a/o+g/k</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Great, Luc,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">thanx, that
is the information I hoped for: the word "raggen" is still in use in
a LS-related language of today. Of course, in this case it has a semantic aura
of movement, sexual copulation, and music. But the fact that is is is used in
Dutch (and I suppose not only as loan from Modern English) shows me that it is
of old tradition and can be repatriated also to Low Saxon varieties.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Meanwhile,
I found the origin of Modern English "ragged" in Old English </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">"raggig"
[rag-like] - see</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=rag&searchmode=nl" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=rag&searchmode=nl</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">and this
lets me suppose, that it is not only related to Old
Norsk "raggaðr [shaggy]", but that it might be also an Old
Saxon word. The central meaning should be that of describing the surface of
things as "shaggy", in contradiction to "even" or
"plain", with pinnacles, spikes, fractions, vertices.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In active
use as transitive verb it means making something to that by splitting, breaking,
discerp, maul, shredding it. Or intransitive by bursting or dissociate by
use. From that the noun meanings of "the rag".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Moreover, I
suppose that the Standard German (and Middle High German) word
"(hervor)ragen" (to protrude, rise, tower) comes from the same
source, though more related to the status of the resulting objects of a
"rag"-process in relation to there environment. (The Duden
etymological dictionary relates it to Old English "ofer-hrægan", but
to russian and greek words for rafters, pinnacles as well.) Might also be, that
the sexual dutch meaning of "raggen, raggende" binds both together
...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Anyway, I
have the impression we came to a (at least) germanic ground word "rag,
hræg etc." by searching for the linguistic origins of "ragtime
music".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Thankful
for all hints and happy Yours,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">de raggende</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black;">joachim</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black;">--</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black;">Kreimer-de Fries</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>