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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 15 December 2008 - Volume 04<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike
Wintzer</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:k9mw@yahoo.com">k9mw@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.15 (01)
[E/LS]</span><br>
<br>
Dear LLs<br>
<br>
Marcus schreef:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Nu warrst du unreell.
"Rehg" is veel öller as Sass. Kummt to'n Bispeel al 1854 in Raabe
sien 'Allgemeines plattdeutsches Volksbuch' vör. Mi gefallt de Schrievwies
'Rehg' ok nich. Dücht mi nich besünners klook (dat 'h' in 'Reihe' is ja
etymoloogsch verwandt mit dat 'g' in 'Reeg' un dat 'w' in 'row'). </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">'Rehg'
is keen 'misspelling'. Dat is hööchstens en 'unwitty spelling'. Sass gefallt
dat 'h' allerdings ok nich un bi Sass is 'Reeg' vertekent. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Sass hett denn ok nix
"respelt" dat dat "as German as possible" utsüht. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">He hett
blot de Schrievregeln, de dat ok vörher al geven harr, en beten op Reeg bröcht
un 'normaliseert'. De Lüüd hebbt ok al vör Sass na hoochdüütsche Schrievregeln
schreven. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">He harr ok
nich "as German as possible" in'n Sinn. He harr "as recognizable
as possible for people educated in German-only schools" in'n Sinn<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Al weer wat tauliert, Marcus.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Ron, you remember, my
thinking was more orthodox than yours, wanting to see your Hanse-based
orthography intoduced.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Over the years I have
become more pragmatic. By no means should we make this a Glaubenskrieg, </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">but continue Ron, Marc et
al. to sort out the facts, all the facts.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Gratefully,
Mike Wintzer<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Orthography<br>
<br>
<i>Glaubenskrieg?</i> Absolutely not, at least not as far as I am concerned. It
seems you read too much into my efforts, Mike, when I was going no farther than
thinking about an auxiliary system to make up for the inadequacies of the Sass
system as it is widely used for the northern dialects.<br>
<br>
Pretty much any system will do as long as it ...</span></p>
<ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">is typologically easy (i.e. not full of
"exotic" letters and diacritics,</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">is easy to learn,</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">does not pretend to be a phonetic writing system,</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">represents <u>all</u> phonemes.</span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>Sass did
not pick his system out of thin air. He took several things from predecessors
such as Rabe. But it is <u>he</u> who is commonly credited with this because he
tried to synthesize and regularize the <u>system</u> and others followed him,
which is why we are talking about the "Sass System" or Sass
Guidelines". This is what I was referring to before Marcus threw me the
Rabe curve ball.<br>
<br>
Sass made quite clear that where accuracy is required an <i>ogonek</i> be used
underneath an "e" ~ "ee" ~ "eh" and "ö"
~ "ö" ~ "öh" to mark them as long monophthongs and thus
distinguish them from their unmarked equivelents that stand for diphthongs. <br>
<br>
Sass or one of his followers said that this is not necessary in the case of
"o" ~ "oo" ~ "oh" since in most dialects
monophthongs and diphthongs have been leveled to become diphthongs. However,
the difference does remain in quite a few dialects, and the "ou"
diphthong in those corresponds to the "au" diphthong in other
dialects, such as those of Mecklenburg (as in <i>t<u>au</u>liehrt</i>).<br>
<br>
Somewhere along the line, "ä" ~ "ää" ~ "äh" came
to be used as an alternative for "e"-<i>ogonek</i> and "œ"
~ "œh" as an alternative for "ö"-<i>ogonek</i>, since this
is typologically easier. This is what the <i>New Sass</i> people did, and I
applaud them for having made the effort to distinguish monophthongs and
dipthongs, as behooves all authors of dictionaries and textbooks. It is these
people and authors of linguistic literature that no doubt Sass had in mind when
he "prescribed" use of the <i>ogonek</i>. <br>
<br>
Non-distinction of diphthongs and long monophthongs leads to mispronunciation
among learners. Ideally therefore, they ought to be distinguished everywhere.
At a minimum, they must be distinguished in reference and teaching
material. <br>
<br>
The use of the German <i>Dehnungs-H</i> is becoming less and less controversial
as more and more people agree that it's kind of silly and certainly redundant.<br>
<br>
Likewise redundant and linguistically untenable is the Sass tradition of
representing final devoicing where and only where German spelling shows a final
voiceless consonant; e.g.<br>
<br>
wide: <i>wiet</i> vs <i>wiede ...</i> (because of German <i>weit</i> vs <i>weite
...</i>)<br>
but ...<br>
dress: <i>Kleed</i> vs <i>Kleder (</i>because of German <i>Kleid</i> vs <i>Kleider</i>)<br>
<br>
My point is that the choice of letters is not so important, but that proper and
consistent distinction of phonemes is very important. If the
"official" system does not properly distinguish them, then it must be
<i>made</i> to do so, or else an auxiliary system needs to be employed that
does properly represent phonemic structure. <br>
<br>
What bothers me about the Sass system as it is <u>popularly</u> used (i.e. the watered-down version) is that on the
one hand it lacks necessary distinctions and on the other hand it dictates
unnecessary fluff such as the <i>Dehnungs-H</i> and selective representation of
final devoicing (which is a phonetic detail and thus doesn't belong into a writing
system other than a phonetic one). In any case, the aim to make it look as German as possible seems to
override the need for consistency and integrity, and this seems like a shaky
foundation to me, as well as a disservice to learners, to say the least.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"></span></p>