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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 28 December 2008 - Volume 03<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Orthography" 2008.12.26 (02) [E]</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: R. F.
Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Orthography<br>
<br>
Hi, Paul!</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">"Christ
stood by the bier". </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Try
spelling that one phonetically!</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Phonetic? That would depend on the dialect; e.g.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">IPA:
kraɪst ˌstʊdætðə ˈbɪɚ<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">SAMPA: kraIst %stUd{dD@
"bI@`<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">IPA: kɻaɪst
ˌstʊdætðə ˈbiːɻ <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">SAMPA: kr\`aIst
%stUd{dD@ "bir\`<br><br></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Kraist
stud at ðə bir.</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
or you could make it more "historical" and without
"special" characters:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Kriist stud at dhe bir.</i><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
or with "special" characters:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Krīst stŭd at ðĕ bir.</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Hi Ron,
My point, admittedly somewhat tongue-in-cheek, was what beer was he
standing by? And my reference to Irish and French was to question why
English gets singled out for its "irrational" spelling when there are
far worse culprits out there? Those of us who have managed to learn to read and
write English aren't some sort of geniuses; we just did it. If the World is
truly desperate for an international language with a completely regular grammar
and spelling, learn Esperanto. <span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
---------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Orthography<br>
<br>
Hey, Paul, mi mayt!<br>
<br>
How about this: we could turn this into a positive by confirming that we <i>are</i>
geniuses and letting the world wonder what we could have accomplished with the
time we spent on memorizing the spelling of practically each and every word.
;-)<br>
<br>
Besides, I personally do not single out English for "irrational"
spelling. It has company: Tibetan and (traditionally written) Mongolian.<br>
<br>
These spelling systems are not "irrational" at all. They are "the
most extreme cases of historical spelling." Most spelling systems are at
least somewhat historical. And that's the main problem with sound-based
written representation. Phonologies constantly change, and thus spelling would
have to be reformed periodically, even if allowance for dialectical variations are made. But, while retaining historical elements,
most of them (such as your examples Irish and French) have predominantly
predictable spelling because the <u>systems</u> remain mostly intact.<br>
<br>
A system such as the Chinese one avoids all this, since it is quite independent
of sound (at least nowadays). But the price you pay for this is that you have to
learn thousands of characters, a pretty large percentage of which are pretty
complex. So it pretty much boils down to the same thing ... except that a
system such as the Chinese one could, at least in theory, be used for all
languages of the world. (Not that I would advocate that, mind you.)<br>
<br>
Cheerio!<br>
<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>