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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 05 January 2009 - Volume 04<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 148, 134);">Brooks, Mark</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:mark.brooks@twc.state.tx.us">mark.brooks@twc.state.tx.us</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.03 (02) [E]</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Marlou wrote: "Now
what is "this" tuesday?"</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">That brings to mind what we
do in Texas.
I never feel like I have it right. Now, to me I would say, "we have a
meeting this Tuesday" meaning Tuesday of this week or tomorrow if I'm speaking
to someone on Monday. But, if I said "next Tuesday" I would mean some
eight days from now. I remember some of my Tennessee relatives making that distinction
by saying "Tuesday week." So, let's say that today is Monday, January
5. To me, "this Tuesday" would be tomorrow and "next Tuesday" would be
January 13, as would "Tuesday week." But, I know that not everyone around
here feels the same way. So, it seems like we continually have to clarify
exactly which Tuesday we mean. Maybe we should just drop the "this Tuesday/next
Tuesday" thing altogether and say, "we have a meeting on [fill in the date]."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Mark Brooks</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.04 (02) [D/E]</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">from Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Marlou wrote:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">A french child that can
count to 100 can do multiplications and sums </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Not necessarily! I have
been fascinated by how French children ( and adults) handle their complex
number system and have asked many a french speaker what they visualise
when they hear or say a number and it would appear that as small children they
learn something like quatre-vingt-douze not as an addition of numbers but
as a single item. When one is learning one's numbers one is often so young
as to not know the value of multiplication ( quatre-vingt) or addition (
dix-huit): maybe some acquire it later but maybe others not.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Watching peoples write
numbers down is as fascinating.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In English you can begin to
write immediately: as soon as you hear the ninety of 99 we can write down
a '9' and wait to hear what follows it and write it to the right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">9...7 9..2</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In German on the other hand
with a 'units first' rule the writing is in the reverse direction, you
write down the unit on the right and then the tens in front to the left :
" Zwei....." 2... " ..und achtzig" 82</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But try this with a French
speaker: " soixante.... Nothing gets written down. " ..
trois" 63 " Soixante....treize" 73.
"Quatre-vingt.....onze" What is fascinating is that they are often
not writing anything that they hear. 4 x 20 + 11 = 91</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">When I have asked whether
or not they are doing the sum in their heads, they usually say No the figures
spring to mind once the 'whole' number is heard.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">re whether it makes them
cleverer at maths to have such a system, well in English we grow up knowing 3
different systems.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">1) Good old hundreds tens
and units</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">2) A good smattering
of biblical stories and history is enough for us to be aware of and able to
work out the same (Celtic) system that French partially uses:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Man's life is three score
years and ten</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Four score and (???) years
ago......</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">3) We even learn the German
system too with our nursery rhymes</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Sing a song of sixpence</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Pocketful of rye</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">FOUR AND TWENTY blackbirds </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Baked in a pie ......</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I don't think English
children are any better at maths for having a working knowledge of different
systems. Though I would agree that they were sharper at mental arithmetic when
they had to use £ s d - working in bases of 12 and 20 !</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Heather</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Roger Hondshoven</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:rhondshoven@yahoo.com">rhondshoven@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LLL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.03 (01) [D/E]</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Beste Luc, Diederik &
All:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject: LL-L
"Etymology"<br>
<br>
Luc: you said:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But I'm anticipating a
little...given the approximately 2 000 M people on this world who are speaking
either English or German as a first or second language (who both use
"next" / "nächste" in this case), my "noste" (=
naaste, superlative of na(ar) - nader - naast) won't be entirely out of tune by
the time Dutch gets its ass whooped.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I might add for
East-Brabant (Getelands): nötst (in Tiens: natst), meaning 'next', e.g. 't
nötste joër 'next year'</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Kind greetings</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Roger Hondshoven</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Roger Hondshoven</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:rhondshoven@yahoo.com">rhondshoven@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.04 (02) [D/E]</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Luc
Hellings wrote:</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">On
a same note, roughly speaking, half of the people here say "half
vier" when the time is 15:30, and the other say "drie en
half"...*s*<br>
<br>
In the part of Belgium I live in (East-Brabant), we only say "half
vier". I wonder if "drie en half" is used in any Brabants
dialect, unless perhaps in the region of Brussels. This construction was
clearly borrowed from French.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Kind
regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Roger
Hondshoven<br></span></p>