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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 06 January 2009 - Volume 02<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:roerd096@PLANET.NL">roerd096@PLANET.NL</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.01.05 (03) [E]<br>
<br>
As I recall correctly, in several Dutch Low Saxon varieties, a
"touter" is<br>
a swing (children's toy) and "toutern" means to swing (Dutch: een<br>
schommel, verb: schommelen). A "tui" in Dutch are the ropework of a<br>
sailing boat<br>
<br>
Ingmar<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Thanks for the compliments, Marlou and Mark. *You guys ...!* (he says<br>
blushing)<br>
<br>
Seriously, here's the continuation of word sleuthing and some homework for<br>
all you etymologists at all levels.<br>
<br>
I wrote:<br>
<br>
*Tüdelkram* is a Missingsch and (from derived from it) casual Northern<br>
German word for something like "nonsense", but not necessarily with
such a<br>
harsh sound, more in the sense of "convoluted stuff", which is pretty
much<br>
the literal translation.<br>
<br>
It is based on Low Saxon *Tütelkraam* (*tuytelkraam*). In other dialects it<br>
is *Tüterkraam* (*tuyterkraam*). (You can also write it with a "d"
instead<br>
of a "t", but that's a different matter to be taken up elsewhere.)
This in<br>
turn is based on *Tüter* (*tuyter*) 'string', 'cord', 'thread', 'yarn',<br>
'rope', anything that can be rolled up. More specifically it means<br>
'messed-up (convoluted) ball of yarn, rool of rope, etc.' Hence the<br>
expression *in de(n) Tüter kamen* 'to get mixed up', 'to get confused'<br>
(both<br>
referring to a string etc. and the person that does the rolling up). It's<br>
extension is *Tüterband* (*tuyterband*) ~ *Tütelband* (*tuytelband*)<br>
'string' (often specifically a piece of string with which to make figures<br>
in<br>
a game).<br>
<br>
Derived from it is the verb *tütern* (*tuytern*) ~ *tüteln* (*tuyteln*) 'to<br>
bind', 'to string up', 'to talk nonsense', 'to work slowly and<br>
inefficiently'. Derived from this is the adjective/adverb *tüterig* (*<br>
tuyterig*) 'confused', 'potty' (in the non-American sense).<br>
<br>
Now we ought to try to identify the root and its possible meaning.<br>
<br>
Remember what I often say about frequentive suffixes in verbs? They are *-<br>
r-<br>
* for habitual action (*tüüt-r- -> tütern*) and *-l-* for "small"<br>
repetitive<br>
action (*tüüt-l- -> tüteln*). This makes the root **tüüt-*. I go out on a<br>
limb and say that it once was **tuut- *later to be umlauted under the<br>
influence of a following high vowel.<br>
<br>
The noun *Tüter* 'string', 'cord', 'thread', 'yarn', 'rope' seems somewhat<br>
odd we mostly recognize *-er* because the deverbal nominal suffix as<br>
marking<br>
a (habitual) doer, such as "baker", "liar" and
"singer", which is the same<br>
in Low Saxon. But it is not impossible that *Tüter* was derived from the<br>
verb *tütern*.<br>
<br>
At any rate, it looks to be that we are left with the root **tüüt- < ***<br>
tuut-*.<br>
<br>
There are two Modern Low Saxon nouns *Tüüt* that I can think of, and<br>
neither<br>
appears to be related to the above:<br>
<br>
*Tüüt ~ Tütt* 'certain types of snipe' (*calidrid*, '*charadriida*')<br>
<br>
*Tüüt ~ Tuut* (< *Tüte* ~ *Tute* > German *Tüte*) 'paper-bag'<br>
<br>
Paper bags were originally cone-shaped, pointed and were made by vendors<br>
before filling them (in times before they came to be glued), hence the Low<br>
Saxon "nickname" *Tütendreier* (*tuytendrayer*) "paper-bag
turner" for a<br>
grocery shop keeper or market vendor. While "turning" is involved
here, I<br>
do<br>
not think this is related to *Tüter* and *tütern* ~ *tüteln*. Much rather,<br>
I<br>
assume we are dealing with the verb *tuten* (*tuut-*) 'to toot'. The paper<br>
cones suggest trumpets, and children did indeed make play trumpets in the<br>
same manner.<br>
<br>
So what *is* the root **tüüt- < ***tuut- *from which words related to<br>
rolling up, threading and weaving are derived? So far I have not been able<br>
to make a connection from it to words in older Germanic languages.<br>
<br>
So there's your homework.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br style="">
</span></p>