<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-alt:"ＭＳ 明朝";
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:宋体;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
span.hccdpe
{mso-style-name:hccdpe;}
span.ep8xu
{mso-style-name:ep8xu;}
span.ldacoc
{mso-style-name:ldacoc;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 14 January 2009 - Volume 06<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).<br>
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on<br>
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page <br>
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.</span><br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Jorge Potter</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:jorgepot@gmail.com">jorgepot@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Numeralia" 2009.01.10 (02) [E]<br>
</span><br>
Numeralia</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear Luc,
Marlou and the rest,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">When the
Spaniards arrived in the Caribbean, they found
the "Indians" computing with all their fingers and toes. It didn't
occur to anybody for years that they were thinking in a twenty-based number
system, thus getting more out of their anatomy than those who used the
ten-based fingers alone.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Jorge
Potter</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Sandy
Fleming</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">sandy@scotstext.org</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.13
(01) [E]<br>
<br>
</span>> From: Luc Hellinckx <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: LL-L "Language programming"<br>
></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> Maybe more precise to say there's people who won't
count past three<br>
> (not "can't" in the sense of being unable). I don't think
anybody<br>
> seriously means that a normal human being is intellectually unable to<br>
> count past three (or four *s*).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Sure they
do. It's not that long since European "thinkers" have accepted<br>
that women, deaf people and black people have souls.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> Here's one technique how to count without names for numbers beyond 4.<br>
> From <a href="http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/%7Emattom/science" target="_blank">http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/science</a><br>
> +society/lectures/lecture3.html</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Well, of
course. This is how Cantor figured out how to count the various<br>
infinities.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> From: M.-L. Lessing <<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>><br>
> Subject: LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.12 (06) [E]<br>
></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> there have been suggestions that language may
"format" the brain and<br>
> now that it may "program" the brain. What exactly is this<br>
> formatting/programming, and what is the difference? (Any neurologists<br>
> around?) The formatting metaphor I spontaneously felt to be plausible,<br>
> partly because it is a fine metaphor :-) It would mean that any<br>
> common</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">"Formatting"
is a computer term meaning to wipe a disk (or just use a<br>
brand new, unwritten disk), and write sectors to it using a format known<br>
to the operating system so that the operating system knows where to<br>
write data to on the disk. So the idea of language formatting the mind<br>
would mean that when a new, unused brain is set up by the languages it<br>
learns to receive data in a a particular way. Or that the user of the<br>
phrase doesn't know basic neurology :)<br>
<br>
Programming is writing a set of instructions to make a computer system<br>
behave in a particular way. So to say that language programs the mind is<br>
to say that a psychotic killer behaves in this way because of the<br>
languages he has learned.<br>
<br>
Both ideas are nonsense based on the erroneous idea that the brain works<br>
something like a computer.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> Now as to numbers and counting. I think we should make clear what<br>
> counting is. Counting is not a private sense of the right number. This<br>
> sense exists in many creatures. Mother duck knows exactly how many<br>
> ducklings have to be there before she leaves the nest. When all n-1<br>
> are collected around her, she waits and calls for number n. Does this<br>
> mean that she can count to 10?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">This isn't
evidence of a duck or a cat having a sense of number. I don't<br>
know how many friends I have but I would still miss any one of them if<br>
they didn't seem to be around any more.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a><br>
<br>
</span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Sandy
Fleming</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">sandy@scotstext.org</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.13
(06) [E]<br>
<br>
</span>> From: Mike Morgan <<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.13 (04) [E]<br>
></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> Sepedi, where I do, but with SIGN LANGUAGE Interpreters
(in Japan<br>
> anyway), and the whole group of people who sit in commitee (also in<br>
> japan) and decide how a word SHOULD be signed by interpeters -- is<br>
> that once the word is decided upon, independent of the community of<br>
> users (and often contrary to the way they already in fact DO sign<br>
> it!), and the Interpreters get "taught" (and what is a pastor
but an<br>
> interpreter of the word?) and gets up on stage and goes to use it, the<br>
> Deaf audience sits there and nods their heads and smiles ... and<br>
> leaves the lecture with not an iota of an idea what the H*** that<br>
> woman (in japan it was mostly, but not invariably, a woman) was trying<br>
> to say. USUALLY they come up (collectively) with some<br>
> "interpretation" ... just as usually fallign far short of what
they<br>
> SHOULD have been let to understand. (We DO PAY these people,<br>
> intrpreters, after all ... or maybe not!)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">A fairly
familiar bunch of ideas, although I get the impression it's a<br>
lot more extreme in Japan
than here.<br>
<br>
I've tried watching signers signing the soaps, the children's programmes<br>
and the news, and my impression that it's mainly those interpreting the<br>
children's programmes that are clear.<br>
<br>
I know young Deaf people who don't use English who can't follow the<br>
interpreter's signing on the soaps. My impression is that the<br>
interpreter isn't really interested in the endless spouting of everyday<br>
utterances and doesn't really bother monitoring his signing to check<br>
that he's making sense.<br>
<br>
With the news, Deaf people will say, in honest moments, that they get<br>
some of it. An exception is with the local news, and I think that what<br>
may be going on is just that the interpreters' dialects on the national<br>
news is just too foreign for us Zummerzet zigners. But I know Londoners<br>
who don't manage to follow it either.<br>
<br>
But the children's programmes are OK! The most popular at the moment<br>
seems to be "In the Night Garden" but it's never been interpreted:<br>
presumably interpreting narrative like "maka paka", "pinky
ponk" and<br>
"upsy daisy doo" is just too much of a challenge!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> (Sorry, i am DEFINITELY NOT a believer in nominalism!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But that's only because Shakespeare programmed your brain
when he said a<br>
rose would smell as sweet by any other name :)<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>