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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 15 January 2009 - Volume 01<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mark Dreyer</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.14
(06) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear Sandy:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject:
LL-L "Language programming"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">With
reguard to your objection on 'Formatting' closing so: "So the
idea of language formatting the mind</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
would mean that when a new, unused brain is set up by the languages it</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">learns to
receive data in a a particular way... " Exactly!<br>
<br>
You say: "Programming is writing a set of instructions to make a computer
system</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
behave in a particular way. So to say that language programs the mind is<br>
to say that a psychotic killer behaves in this way because of the</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">languages
he has learned?"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Mark:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">So what's
wrong with this thesis? It might not be the only way to make a psychotic killer
but it certainly works. I'm a soldier. I know. I forget who called Myth a
disease of Language (that really stuck in Tolkien's throat) but consider.
If I send 'A' a poison-pen letter that 'B' is coming to kill him, & so
drive A to pre-emptively take out B, my weapon is not a rifle but the
letter, the language the medium of my methodology, the murderer
merely my hapless tool.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
The Jesuits say, "Give us a child until he is eight, & he will be ours
forever." George Orwell in his SF novel '1984' told
of language tailored to manipulate action (Newspeak). He might not
have been a linguist but he has a point there. When in any given language any
given target-group is inevitably associated with a corpus of hateful, malign,
scabrous or at the very least negative terminology & metaphor like
'deviant', 'criminal' or 'primitive' or 'barbaic' & such-like, that is
learned with the language & becomes part of the culture it serves.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
& if the target-group is simply foreign, physically disabled, homosexual,
Jewish, Black or White, no guessing the consequences. I do not refer only
to Nazis. People who guard language against misuse & protect the young
from abuse know this very well, & if they cannot practice censorship they
resort to 'politically correct' language (which I hate).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Sandy</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">, The brain <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">does</span></strong> work <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">something</span></strong> like a computer. it
processes data.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Nevertheless, you are dead right to point out that a mother-duck or
cat knows if one of her offspring is missing. This isn't evidence of a
duck or a cat having a sense of number. It is evidence of a sense of
recognition. In the same way you miss an invited guest at a cocktail-party
because you don't see his face. it isn't necessary or to the point to count
the other guests.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Yrs,</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Mark</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mike Morgan</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:mwmosaka@gmail.com">mwmosaka@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.14
(06) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Sandy</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> (an sinry ithers),</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> I've tried watching signers signing the soaps, the children's programmes</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> and
the news, and my impression that it's mainly those interpreting the</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> children's programmes that are clear.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">One of the
BEST things about Japan
(I am told I don't OFTEN comment on the positives) is that they ALSO have sign
langauge news delivered by native signers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">And EVEN
BETTER: the CHILDREN'S news (once a week fro 20 minutes), delivered by a native
signer.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">... And in
fairness to the TV sign language interpreters, i have had more than one Deaf
friend (in the Osaka-Kobe area of Western japan) tell me that they had an even
HARDER time following one of the Deaf news casters (also a friend of mine, but
living many years in Tokyo, Eastern Japan ... though originally from
Yamaguchi, west of Hiroshima). As Sandy
says, it MIGHT be dialect and fast dialect at that, but it is also the
vocabulary ("higher-educated" deaf vs "average" deaf) ...
not knowing (really) what the diff is between and NGO and an NPO, fro example.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> presumably interpreting narrative like "maka paka", "pinky
ponk" and<br>
> "upsy daisy doo" is just too much of a challenge!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Ah, but if
the Russians can interpret into BEAUTIFULLY appropriate Russian, then why can't
the interpretters? Nabokov's translation of "Alice" is EVEN better than the
(wonderful) original! "Mock Turtle" become "cherepuxa" (a
play on cherepaxa 'turtle' and chepuxa 'nonsense'), etc etc etc ... Well,
Russian translators of books do anyway (the interpretting and dubbing of movies
i have always found mediocre sicne the old days). But then, maybe that is
because the translators have often been writers themselves ... PLUS translators
have typically been more RESPECTED there, which contributes to professionalism
I think.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">>
(Sorry, i am DEFINITELY NOT a believer in nominalism!</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">But
that's only because Shakespeare programmed your brain when he said a<br>
rose would smell as sweet by any other name :)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Yes, but
then Pasternak REPROGRAMMED my brain by producing wonderful (snogshibatel'nye,
to use my all-time favorite word) translations of Shakespeare :-))</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">a rose is a
rose is a rose ... and I am allergic to them ALL!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Mike || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">マイク</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal;" lang="HI">माईक</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">|| Мика || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Shruti;" lang="GU">માઈક</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="GU"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">|| </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Sylfaen;">მაიქ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Raavi;" lang="PA">ਮਾਈਕ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> <br>
</span><span dir="rtl" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HE">מייק</span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span>
|| </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Latha;" lang="TA">மாஇக்</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="TA"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">|| Miqueu || U C > || <span dir="rtl" lang="AR-SA">ما یک</span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span><span dir="ltr"></span> || Mihangel <br>
================ <br>
Dr Michael W Morgan <br>
Ishara Foundation || </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal;" lang="HI">ईशारा</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal;" lang="HI">फॉउंडेशन</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">|| </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">イシャラ基金</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Mumbai/Bombay *|* </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Mangal;" lang="HI">मुंबई</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"> *</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">|*
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">ムンバイ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">/</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">ボンベイ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> (</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: SimSun;" lang="ZH-CN">インド</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">)<br>
<a href="http://www.ishara.org/" target="_blank">www.ishara.org</a><br>
+++++++++++++++<br>
Одной рукой не поднять двух арбузов<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>