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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 14 January 2009 - Volume 02<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <<a href="mailto:Kreimer@jpberlin.de">Kreimer@jpberlin.de</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.01.15 (02) [E]<br>
<br>
? - to greet = to tax the greatness, degree, power - ?<br>
<br>
Goude dag un riikdom düs nigge jaar, Deyplanders,<br>
Good day and richdom in the new year, Lowlanders,<br>
<br>
shortly after it's beginning I made a discovery, accidentally, but I'm not
certain.<br>
Please rebut/confute my speculation:<br>
<br>
Are "to greet / gröüten / grüßen" and "great / graut / groß"<br>
not only similar but also cognates in theyr original meaning?<br>
<br>
Might be that is already self-evident for you or pure phantasy. How I came to
the finding:<br>
<br>
In the Book »Plattdeutsche Briefe etc.«[1] of my favorite Westphalian author F.
W. Lyra from 1845, I found, at the and of the first letter:<br>
<br>
"Grüüßet Liisken duusent mal van mi." (Say 1000 greetings from me to
Liisken)<br>
<br>
Because Lyra was a master of Plaat, I wondered about this foreign, HiGerm word
and ask me if perhaps also "gröüten" could be only a loanword in LS.<br>
<br>
That is not the case. I found in the Klöntrup Dictionary (made 20-30 years
before) the words »Grout« [greeting], »gröüten«. But it seems, that it was not
very usual to use it, at least not in alltheday's way of English
"greetings" or HiGerman today. (Perhaps, because the original meaning
of gröüten was still in mind?)<br>
<br>
I had a look in Schiller-Lübben Middel Low German Dictionary and found:<br>
<br>
grôt, grût (m.), grote (f.): Gruß, wese grot: gegrüßt.<br>
<br>
Lübben's Handdictionary of MiLoGerman it looks as if Wf. »gröüten« [to
greet] and »graut, Grätte« [great(ness) etc.] are from the same radical:<br>
<br>
be-groten: 1. begrüssen. 2. die Grösse von etwas festsetzen, taxieren,
schätzen.<br>
[1. to greet so. 2. to
rate, tax the greatness of sth.]<br>
<br>
be-grotinge, Begrüssung.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">groten, gruten, sw. v. grüssen, ansprechen, zur Bewillkommnung etc.,
ansprechen, auffordern zum Kampfe; Hunde hetzen.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">[to greet, welcome so., speak to
so., ask so. to fight] (!)<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">groten, sw. v. 1. gross machen, erheben. 2. die Grösse bestimmen, ansetzen,
taxieren.<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">[1. to raise sth., make great. 2. to
determine, tax the greatness/bigness]<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally, consulting the "Online Etymological Dictionary" http://<a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php" target="_blank">www.etymonline.com/index.php</a><br>
gave<br>
<br>
- for great:<br>
<br>
O.E. great "big, coarse, stout," from W.Gmc. *grautaz (cf. O.S. grot,
O.Fris. grat, Du. groot, Ger.
groß "great"). Originally "big in size, coarse," it took
over much of the sense of M.E. mickle, and is now largely superseded by big and
large except for non-material things. (...)<br>
<br>
- for greet:<br>
<br>
O.E. gretan "to come in contact with" (in sense of "attack,
accost" as well as "salute, welcome"), from W.Gmc. *grotja (cf.
O.S. grotian, O.Fris. greta, Du. groeten, O.H.G. gruozen, Ger. grußen "to
salute, greet"), perhaps originally "to resound" (via notion of
"cause to speak"), causative of P.Gmc. *grætanan, root of O.E. grætan
(Anglian gretan) "weep, bewail," and greet still means "cry,
weep" in Scot. & northern England dialect. Grætan is probably
also the source of the second element in regret.<br>
<br>
=> That is, again many similarities or even sameness (s. O.S. grot=great and
grotian=greet), but nothing is said about an identical radical.<br>
<br>
My hypothesis is:<br>
<br>
"to greet / gröüten / grüßen" and "great / graut / groß" have
the same radical.<br>
<br>
Saxon »grotian ... groten« had originally the sense of »to tax degree,
power«,<br>
then also »acknowledge/appreciate so.'s degree, greatness« and became finally
the notion - verb and noun - for the first interaction when strangers, later
any people came across / encountered / met each other.<br>
<br>
This meaning had already long time ago become independent and unconscious of
the original meaning in many Germanic influenced languages like English, Dutch
and German,<br>
<br>
finally becoming (at least in HiGerman) the introduction formula itself:<br>
<br>
»Grüß dich, grüezi, grüß Gott« and even the complimentary close (!) of letters
etc.:<br>
<br>
"Greetings", "Mit freundlichen Grüßen".<br>
<br>
joachim<br>
<br>
PS.<br>
Distributed Proofreading of F. W. Lyra's Low Saxon Letters etc ...,<br>
the main book of Westphalian language:<br>
<br>
[1]Whoever is disposed to know somewhat more on classical Low Saxon and
Westphalian and is willing to contribute to a sooner completion of this project
should join us at:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.pgdp.net/c/project.php" target="_blank">http://www.pgdp.net/c/project.php</a>?id=projectID49403e70a3d57&detail_level=4<br>
<br>
To participate in the project, you have to click the Register link right at the
top (if not already participant in one the pgdp proofreader projects).<br style="">
</span></p>