<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Crhahn%5CLocal%20Settings%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Crhahn%5CLocal%20Settings%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:ËÎÌå;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-1 -369098753 63 0 4129279 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@Arial Unicode MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-1 -369098753 63 0 4129279 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
span.hccdpe
{mso-style-name:hccdpe;}
span.ep8xu
{mso-style-name:ep8xu;}
span.ldacoc
{mso-style-name:ldacoc;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 15 January 2009 - Volume 05<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).<br>
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on<br>
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page <br>
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.</span><br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span></span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span> <br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.01.15 (02) [E]</span><br>
<br>
From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <<a href="mailto:Kreimer@jpberlin.de" target="_blank">Kreimer@jpberlin.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Kreimer@jpberlin.de" target="_blank">Kreimer@jpberlin.de</a>>></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.01.15 (02) [E]</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
?
- to greet = to tax the greatness, degree, power - ?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Goude dag un riikdom düs nigge jaar, Deyplanders,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Good day and richdom in the new year, Lowlanders,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
shortly after it's beginning I made a discovery, accidentally, but I'm not
certain.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Please rebut/confute my speculation:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Are "to greet / gröüten / grüßen" and "great / graut /
groß"</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
not only similar but also cognates in theyr original meaning?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Might be that is already self-evident for you or pure phantasy. How I came to
the finding:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
In the Book »Plattdeutsche Briefe etc.«[1] of my favorite Westphalian author F.
W. Lyra from 1845, I found, at the and of the first letter:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
"Grüüßet Liisken duusent mal van mi." (Say 1000 greetings from me to
Liisken)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Because Lyra was a master of Plaat, I wondered about this foreign, HiGerm word
and ask me if perhaps also "gröüten" could be only a loanword in LS.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
That is not the case. I found in the Klöntrup Dictionary (made 20-30 years
before) the words »Grout« [greeting], »gröüten«. But it seems, that it was not
very usual to use it, at least not in alltheday's way of English
"greetings" or HiGerman today. (Perhaps, because the original meaning
of gröüten was still in mind?)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
I had a look in Schiller-Lübben Middel Low German Dictionary and found:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
grôt, grût (m.), grote (f.): Gruß, wese grot: gegrüßt.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Lübben's Handdictionary of MiLoGerman it looks as if Wf. »gröüten« [to
greet] and »graut, Grätte« [great(ness) etc.] are from the same radical:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
be-groten: 1. begrüssen. 2. die Grösse von etwas festsetzen, taxieren,
schätzen.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
[1. to greet so. 2. to rate,
tax the greatness of sth.]</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
be-grotinge, Begrüssung.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" lang="DE">
groten, gruten, sw. v. grüssen, ansprechen, zur Bewillkommnung etc.,
ansprechen, auffordern zum Kampfe; Hunde hetzen.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" lang="DE">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
[to greet, welcome so., speak to so., ask so. to
fight] (!)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" lang="DE">
groten, sw. v. 1. gross machen, erheben. 2. die Grösse bestimmen, ansetzen,
taxieren.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
[1. to raise sth., make great. 2. to determine, tax
the greatness/bigness]</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span></div>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Finally,
consulting the "Online Etymological Dictionary" <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php</a>
<<a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
gave</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
- for great:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
O.E. great "big, coarse, stout," from W.Gmc. *grautaz (cf. O.S. grot,
O.Fris. grat, Du. groot, </span>Ger.<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
groß "great"). Originally "big in size, coarse," it took over
much of the sense of M.E. mickle, and is now largely superseded by big and
large except for non-material things. (...)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
- for greet:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
O.E. gretan "to come in contact with" (in sense of "attack,
accost" as well as "salute, welcome"), from W.Gmc. *grotja (cf.
O.S. grotian, O.Fris. greta, Du. groeten, O.H.G. gruozen, Ger. grußen "to
salute, greet"), perhaps originally "to resound" (via notion of
"cause to speak"), causative of P.Gmc. *grætanan, root of O.E. grætan
(Anglian gretan) "weep, bewail," and greet still means "cry,
weep" in Scot. & northern </span>England<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> dialect. Grætan is probably
also the source of the second element in regret.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
=> That is, again many similarities or even sameness (s. O.S. grot=great and
grotian=greet), but nothing is said about an identical radical.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
My hypothesis is:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
"to greet / gröüten / grüßen" and "great / graut / groß"
have the same radical.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Saxon »grotian ... groten« had originally the sense of »to tax degree,
power«,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
then also »acknowledge/appreciate so.'s degree, greatness« and became finally
the notion - verb and noun - for the first interaction when strangers, later
any people came across / encountered / met each other.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
This meaning had already long time ago become independent and unconscious of
the original meaning in many Germanic influenced languages like English, Dutch
and German,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
finally becoming (at least in HiGerman) the introduction formula itself:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
»Grüß dich, grüezi, grüß Gott« and even the complimentary close (!) of letters
etc.:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
"Greetings", "Mit freundlichen Grüßen".</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
joachim</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
PS.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Distributed Proofreading of F. W. Lyra's Low Saxon Letters etc ...,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
the main book of Westphalian language:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
[1]Whoever is disposed to know somewhat more on classical Low Saxon and
Westphalian and is willing to contribute to a sooner completion of this project
should join us at:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="http://www.pgdp.net/c/project.php?id=projectID49403e70a3d57&detail_level=4" target="_blank">http://www.pgdp.net/c/project.php?id=projectID49403e70a3d57&detail_level=4</a><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
To participate in the project, you have to click the Register link right at the
top (if not already participant in one the pgdp proofreader projects).</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">That's an
interesting thought, but my etymological dictionaries indicate this: source for
"to greet" is Proto-Germanic *grōtjan meaning "to make sb.
cry". This developed to "cry, weep" in North Germanic and
Scottish (Danish for example "at græde"). In English and Continental
West Germanic it took a different way. It seems there was a semantic shift from
"to make cry" to "attack".<br>
And now it seems, the natural thought of a Germanic when meeting another person
was not to exchange friendly words, but to attack the invader ;-) And when the
Germanics in the course of time became more moderate with foreigners the meaning
shifted to "challenge", "inquire" ("why are you
here?"), "ask" ("what's your way?") and finally to
today's "greet". So the underlying meaning was "to take the
appropiate action when approaching a foreigner". What exactly is
"appropiate" changed over time. At least this is what I took from the
information in my Chambers and dtv etymological dictionaries (English and
German repectively).<br>
(the dog-fighting meaning in Schüller-Lübben is a remnant of the early
meanings.)<br>
<br>
"great" according to my dictionaries is from IE *ghrēud meaning
"bruise", "hackle". That's almost the opposite of
"great" and "groot": split things into pieces. But it seems
in Germanic *ghrēud meant "to split things into coarse pieces". A
related word is "Grütt", "grits": "grain split into
coarse pieces" (as opposed to meal, which is grain split into very tiny
pieces). From this meaning of coarse pieces great took on to mean
"massy", "thick", then "wide", "long",
"broad" and finally evolved to today's "groot". English
"great" took a further step cause "big" already covered
some of the meanings of what in Low Saxon is "groot".<br>
<br>
So I don't think, "great" and "greet" are related. Both
etymologies were very interesting to me, cause they show, that meanings can
evolve in very awkward ways. But the original meaning of "greet"
seems to be quite contrary to "appreciate so.'s greatness" ;-)<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Marcus Buck<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
</span>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Scots:<br>
greet [grit] 'to cry'<br>
great </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">[grɛt]
~ [grɪt]</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> 'great'<br>
<br>
Old English:<br>
grǽtan 'to cry'<br>
great 'great'<br>
<br>
Old Saxon:<br>
grātan 'to cry'<br>
grōtian 'to greet'<br>
grôt 'great'<br>
<br>
Old Frisian:<br>
grēta 'to greet'<br>
grât 'great'<br>
<br>
Old German:<br>
grazen 'to cry out'<br>
gruozen 'to greet'<br>
grōz 'great'<br>
<br>
<i>Oxford English Dictionary</i>:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Crhahn%5CLocal%20Settings%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Crhahn%5CLocal%20Settings%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:ËÎÌå;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-1 -369098753 63 0 4129279 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@Arial Unicode MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-1 -369098753 63 0 4129279 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">greet</span></b><font size="1"><sup><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">2</span></sup></font><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";"><br>
[Two distinct but synonymous words have here coalesced: (1) OE. <i>grǽtan</i>
(only in Anglian form <i>grétan</i>), presumably a redupl. str. vb. with pa.
tense <i>*grét</i>, pa. pple. <i>*grǽten</i> (a wk. pa. pple.
occurs once in the pl. <i>begrétte</i>), corresp. to OS. <i>grátan</i> (only
once in pa. tense <i>griat</i>, v.r. <i>griot</i>) to weep, MHG. <i>grazen</i>
(wk.) to cry out, rage, storm, ON. <i>gráta</i>, pa. tense <i>grét</i> (Sw. <i>gråta</i>,
Da. <i>græde</i>), Goth. <i>grêtan</i>, pa. tense <i>gaigrôt</i>:OTeut.
<i>*grǽtan</i>, f. OAryan root <i>*ghrēd-</i>: <i>ghrōd-</i>
found also in Skr. <i>hrād</i> to resound (cf. <a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=greet&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=3&xrefword=greet&ps=v.&homonym_no=1" target="_top">GREET</a>
<i>v.</i><sup>1</sup>); (2) OE. <i>gréotan</i> (pa. tense <i>*gréat</i>, <i>*gruton</i>,
pa. pple. <i>*groten</i>) = OS. <i>griotan</i>, <i>greotan</i>; possibly
evolved from a pa. tense of the redupl. vb. <i>grātan</i>;
possibly a compound with prefix <i>*ga-</i> of the synonymous str. vb. found in
OE. as <i>réotan</i>. Prof. Sievers suggests that both vbs. may descend from a
common pre-Teut. root <i>*ghrêud-</i>, the long diphthong being
differentiated into Teut. <i>ǽ</i> and <i>eu</i>. <a name="50098485n1"></a><br>
The gloss '<i>mereo</i> [= <i>mæreo</i>], groeto' in the Corpus
Glossary is difficult to explain; most prob. <i>groeto</i> is simply miswritten
for <i>gréto</i> (or <i>gréoto</i>) owing to confusion with <a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=greet&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=3&xrefword=greet&ps=v.&homonym_no=1" target="_top">GREET</a>
<i>v.</i><sup>1</sup>] <br>
<br>
<b>great</b><br>
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">[Com. WGer.: OE. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">gréat</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> = OFris. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grât</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, OS. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grôt</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (MDu., Du. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">groot</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">),
OHG., MHG. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grôz</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (G. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grosz</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">):</span>OTeut<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">*grauto-</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">:</span>pre-Teut<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">*ghroudo-</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">.
(Wanting in Gothic and Scandinavian.) </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" name="50098281n1"></a><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
On the assumption that the primary sense is 'coarse' (sense 1
below), some scholars regard the word as cognate with ON. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">graut-r</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
porridge, OE. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grút</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> fine meal, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grot</i> particle, <i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grytta</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> coarse
meal, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">gréot</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> sand, gravel, ON. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">griót</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> stones. But the connexion is
not free from difficulty, as the cognates of these words outside Teut. point to
a root meaning 'to pound', a sense from which that of the adj. is not easily
derived. It has been suggested (Stokes in Fick </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Idg. Wb.</i><sup style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">4</sup><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> II.
119) that a cognate of the Teut. adj. may exist in the OIrish </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">gruad</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (?:</span>pre-Celtic<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">*ghroudes-</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">)
cheek (? lit. 'thick or fleshy part' of the face; cf. sense 2 below, and the
contrasted notion in OE. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">þunwang</i> lit. 'thin cheek', the
temples). The prevailing senses in OE. are 'coarse, thick, stout, big'; but the
word also appears as an intensive synonym of <i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">micel</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=great&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=a3tI-fHvFdt-15717&result_place=1&xrefword=mickle" target="_top">MICKLE</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">,
which in the later language it superseded. In OHG. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grôz</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> had the
senses of 'big, awkwardly large', and of 'pregnant', but was also used as a
synonym of </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">mihhil</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (though not with reference to length); in OS. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grôt</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
is recorded only in the sense of 'great', in which it is less frequent (and
possibly more emphatic) than </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">mikil</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. The development by which </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">great</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
has superseded </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">mickle</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (not only in </span>Eng.<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
but also in </span>Du., Ger.<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, and Fris.) may be illustrated
by reference to the mod. colloquial substitution of </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">big</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> for </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">great</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">,
and to the supersession of L. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">magnus</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> in </span>Rom.<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> by </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">grandis</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> big,
full-grown (see </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=great&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=a3tI-fHvFdt-15717&result_place=1&xrefword=grand&ps=a." target="_top">GRAND</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">a.</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">). </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In this word, as in </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">break</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, the influence of the preceding </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">r</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
has caused ME. (ɛː) to be
represented by (</span>e<span lang="ZH-CN">ɪ</span>) instead of the
usual (i<span lang="ZH-CN">ː</span>); cf. <i>broad</i> with (<span lang="ZH-CN"></span>ɔː</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">) instead of (ɛʊ).
The pronunciation (</span>gri<span lang="ZH-CN">ː</span>t<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">)
was, however, very common, and approved by the majority of orthoepists,
throughout the 18th c.; it seems to have been merely an artificial fashion.
Many modern dialects have (</span>gr<span lang="ZH-CN">ɛ</span>t<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">),
and others have metathetic forms such as (g(ʌ)rt);
a common Sc. form, esp. in senses 1 and 2, is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">gryte</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (greit).] </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<br><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><p></p>