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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 02 February 2009 - Volume 03<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: LUCAS ANNEAR <<a href="mailto:annear@wisc.edu">annear@wisc.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Idiomatica</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear Lowlanders,<br>
<br>
I have a question regarding a genitive construction. In Norwegian it's
gradually becoming more acceptable to write constructions like:<br>
<br>
- Per sin bil ligger der borte. 'Per his car lies over there.' 'Per's car is
over there.'<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
-Bilen min traff Kari sin bil. 'My car hit Kari his car.' 'My car hit
Kar's car.'<br>
<br>
especially when it is part of the subject of the sentence, and so I hear.<br>
<br>
I know that this construction exists in Frisian. Unfortunately I can't
construct my own sentences (just trying to read is difficult enough!), so I'll
have to borrow one that I found on the web as an example. (found here: <a href="http://netherlands.poetryinternationalweb.org/piw_cms/cms/cms_module/index.php?obj_id=4588" target="_blank">http://netherlands.poetryinternationalweb.org/piw_cms/cms/cms_module/index.php?obj_id=4588</a>)<br>
<br>
-Wylst it roet reinde út de himel syn skimerwolken. Meaning: "While
the soot rained out the heaven (sky) his dusky clouds" in an, I think,
literal translation.<br>
<br>
To what extent is found in the other Lowlands
(and Germanic) languages, and is there an origin that is generally agreed upon?
I don't think that I've seen it in Dutch, though I wouldn't be surprised
at all if it's found. I'm wondering if it is borrowed into (at least)
Norwegian (and more Scandinavian languages?) since it seems to be stigmatized,
perhaps because it's not "native". An answer, or direction to
previous discussion would be very much appreciated (the question had been
sizzling in the back of my head for some time now!) Thank you all ahead
of time.<br>
<br>
Lucas Annear<br>
Madison, Wisconsin
(though currently Bø i Telemark, Norge)<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Syntax<br>
<br>
Hi, Lucas!<br>
<br>
This construction is very common in Low Saxon. In some dialects it is used only
where the owner is a living being, while in other dialects there is no such
restriction.<br>
<br>
</span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" lang="DA">- Per sin bil ligger der borte. 'Per his car lies over there.' </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">'Per's car is over there.'</span></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
<br>
Peter sien Auto steiht daar günt. <br>
(Peter his car stands there yonder.) <br>
Peter's car is over there.<br>
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
-Bilen min traff Kari sin bil. 'My car hit Kari his car.' 'My car hit Kar's
car.'</span></span><br><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
<br>
Mien Auto hett Hanne ähr Auto anrasselt.<br>
(My car has Hanne her car on-rattled.)<br>
My car hit Hanne's car.<br>
<br>
The other construction uses <i>vun ~ von ~ van</i> (from > of, by); e.g.<br>
<br>
Dat Dack vun dat Schoolhuus brennt.<br>
(The roof of the school house burns.)<br>
The roof of the school building is on fire.<br>
<br>
Den Dialekt vun Oslo
kann in verstahn.<br>
(The dialect of Oslo
can I understand.)<br>
I can understand the Oslo
dialect.<br>
<br>
Du bruukst de Ãœnnerschrift vun dien Vadder or Moder.<br>
(You need the signature of your father or mother.)<br>
You need one of your parents' signature.<br>
<br>
As you probably know, Middle Saxon, the medieval ancestor of Low Saxon,
strongly influenced the Scandinavian languages because of close ties with the
Hanseatic Trading League. I can't say if the construction you talked about is a
result of this. Written Middle Saxon tended to use the <i>van</i> construction
as well as archaic genitive constructions that are no longer used. However, my
strong hunch is that there used to be differences between written and
ordinarily spoken Middle Saxon (as one can tell by the use of highfalutin
expressions and longwinded sentences in writing). I would not be surprised if
the type of construction you are referring to was already in common use at that
time.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
•
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