<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:宋体;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="PT-BR">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 14 February 2009 - Volume 02<br>
===========================================</span><span style="" lang="PT-BR"></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: <span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span>
<<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject:
LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (04) [E]</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">The use of "God Save
the Queen" as an English anthem at sporting events irritates me. It was
written as the anthem for the United Kingdom, and once more it is England's job
to be "British" and inclusive, while the other coutries express their
indvidual identity. The only time we hear an exception is in the
Commonwealth Games, where nobody plays "God Save the Queen", and
England uses "Land of Hope and Glory", which I believe we should
always use.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">In the Olympics, where the
United Kingdom takes part (<strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">not</span></strong>
Great Britain, despite the use of the initials GB on the tables etc.),
"God Save the Queen" is reasonable - though note that after the UK's
most successful Olympics ever, Wales and Scotland held special receptions for
their contributors. Similar suggestions for England were dismissed as
"divisive", or even "fascist".</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I haven't actually noted
what happens in the case of Ireland.
In football (Soccer), Northern Ireland
and the Irish Republic field their own teams. In Rugby
football in the Six Nations contest, there is a single Irish team including
players from Ulster.
I must take note of what they sing in each case.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Paul</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject: LL-L
"Anthems" 2009.02.13 (05) [E]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 5pt 0in 12pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From:
Tom Mc Rae <<a href="mailto:thomas.mcrae@bigpond.com" target="_blank">thomas.mcrae@bigpond.com</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (04) [E]</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">....When someone from England
has great success in some field the English based media tend to hail this as a
triumph for England.
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">A Scot does something of great merit it is usually a triumph for
Britain.
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Regards </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Tom Mc Rae </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Brisbane</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">AUSTRALIA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">"Oh wad some power the Giftie gie us, </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Tae see oorsels as ithers see us </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Robert Burns</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Hi Tom, </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">See my coment on Ron's
post. I believe the exact opposite applies - as I pointed out re Scotland and Wales singling out their Olympic
athletes. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Tim Henman was <em><span style="font-family: Arial;">never</span></em> referred to as an English tennis
player; Andy Murray is frequently called a Scot. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Yes, there has long been a
tendency to use "England"
as almost synonymous with "Britain"
and even "United Kingdom",
both within and without England,
but that hasn't aggrandised England,
it has subsumed it. Wales
has an Assembly, Scotland a
Parliament, Northern Ireland
has a Parliament or not, depending on who's talking to who on any given day of
the week, but the suggestion that England
decide on English matters was denounced by (Scot) Gordon Brown as "sowing
the seeds of the death of the United
Kingdom". </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Good, RIP. I agree we
couldn't have survived about 250 of the last 300 years without the UK, but it has
now outlived its usefulness. And it was clearly never intended to be a
"Country", or it would have a proper name (what on Earth is an
UKoGBNI anyway?) and a proper flag rather than that curious hybrid thing -
which ignores Wales
anyway. But the individual names and boundaries have been retained -
except England
has never been thought to merit a separate status. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">When polled, over 70% of
English people want Independence, which is why
our disproportionately Scottish-dominated administration will never tolerate
even a sniff of the idea; as the country with the biggest population in
the Union, if we go, it's over - and
they'll have to get a proper job. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Scandinavian countries work
fine as independent cooperative neighbours, one of which isn't even in the EU.
We can manage the same. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Paul </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Derby</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">, </span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">England<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: Anthems<br>
<br>
Dear Lowlanders,<br>
<br>
God forbid I stir up the hornets' nest any further when I didn't intend to stir
it up in the first place with my "innocent" question about the states
of anthems on the lovely Isle of Britain. However, for whatever it's worth
coming from an outsider, albeit a genealogical relative and compassionate
fellow Lowlander, I have to say that I can at least somewhat see our Paul's
point and that I sympathize with his peeve (unless I misunderstood him).<br>
<br>
If we try to distance ourselves from knee-jerk reactions and name-calling, we
should at least in theory understand that all the supposed problems, disputes and
misgivings would end if <i>all</i> of Britain's traditional countries (and I'm
ignoring the issue of Cornwall here) were recognized as separate countries, and
if this included England as a country as well. Under the current circumstances
these would probably form a close alliance, a union within the European Union.
If this would spell the beginning of the end of the UK is really another matter. So
what if it did? Would this stand in the way of peace and close cooperation?<br>
<br>
The way it is now -- all but England (and Cornwall) being sovereign nations --
makes it seem, at least to me, that historical England has indeed been morphed
into being synonymous with "Britain" and "United Kingdom"
with Scotland and Wales as quasi autonomous regions having nominal country status
within this England > Britain/UK entity. This would be similar if Russia had given up its discrete identity within
the Soviet Union while most officially
non-Russian Soviet states had retained theirs. (And people did in fact treat
"Soviet Union" and Russia"
as synonymous.)<br>
<br>
I am sorry if I inadvertently stepped on toes and ruffled feathers and if I
came across as overly naive.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: Hannelore Hinz <a href="mailto:HanneHinz@t-online.de" target="_blank">HanneHinz@t-online.de</a></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject:
LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (05) [E]</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">De Hymne "Scotland
the Brave" hett mien'n Nerv drapen un hett mi bannig anrögt. Ick fäuhl de
schöne Melodie so as de Minschen dat dor in sick dragen, ehr Leiw' för Heimat
un Minschen un väl mihr noch.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">Wunnerschöne "Interpretation". De Musik mit ehr
Instrumenten gifft' denn' Song sien eigen Klüer.</span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">(Oewer ein tau lang' Hymne gifft ok Probleme, wenn de von all' Minschen
sungen warden sall.)</span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">Un liekers is dat swor, sick ein Mein oewer de välen Hymnen verlöwen, hett
doch jedet Land sien Traditschonen. </span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="DE">Mien Hochachten för all' de "Anthems".</span><span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Best' Gräuten.</span></p>
<p>Hanne</p>
•
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************