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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 26 February 2009 - Volume 03<br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "History" 2009.02.26 (01) [E]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
A bit like zoology: splitters v. lumpers. Also raises some quandries for
an outsider. Should I speak my very poor Swedish, or make an even worse
attempt at Gutnish? Though based on my experience of anywhere north of the Kiel Canal, they'll answer in English anyway.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From:<span class="ep8xu"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"> R. F. Hahn</span></span>
<<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">History</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
“Lumpers” definitely, Paul, but “splitters” not necessarily, not when seen from
their angle. <br>
<br>
Swedish, like Danish, is of the East Scandinavian type. Indigenous Norwegian dialects
are of the West Scandinavian type, as are Jamtlandic dialects. Sweden took Jamtland from Norway
and then said that the local indigenous dialects were Swedish. Many Jamtlanders
never accepted that. So it’s not a matter of splitting but a matter of not
accepting the lumping. <br>
<br>
Similarly, original Scanian dialects share far more with Danish than with
Swedish. In fact, Scania had been a Danish province for quite a few centuries
but came to be taken by Sweden
(1719) which then proclaimed that the dialects were Swedish. Scanian
“hard-liners” never accepted that. So, again it’s not accepting the “lumping.”<br>
<br>
The status of Elfdalian as a Swedish dialect group versus a separate language
has been debated for quite some time. It is structurally and lexically quite
unlike general Swedish and is therefore seen as a separate language by many
that use scientific criteria rather than nationalistic criteria.<br>
<br>
In 1999, Sweden
accepted Finnish, Romani, Sami, Tornedal Finnish (Meänkieli) and Yiddish as
minority languages. However, when it comes to North Germanic language varieties
within Sweden
the “lumping” principle still applies.<br>
<br>
I most definitely don't have it out for Sweden, lovely country that it is.
I am merely trying to remind you and others that positive labeling on whatever
grounds is still labeling, simplification, lumping. No country has a
"clean record" just because it established a more or less positive
international image in the recent past. If you were able to talk with the mixed
Germanic- and Slavic-rooted population of the Baltic south coast of the Thirty
Year War era (1618–1648) they would be quick to let you know that “Swede” is
synonymous with “bogeyman” because of the way they were treated.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="ep8xu"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Luc Hellinckx</span></span><span class="hccdpe"> </span><span class="ldacoc"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="hccdpe">LL-L "History"</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
Beste Paul,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">You wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
How times change! I bet modern Swedes would be a bit taken aback at being seen
as a rapacious threat!</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Mmm, not
sure that the Slavic world would agree.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Yes, modern
Sweden
has been some sort of model for a few countries during the last few decades
(not only for the US),
but history didn't start at the end of WW II I'm afraid. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">It's still
a matter of dispute among Slavists as to how important for example the
Varangians (from Sweden
and further afield) were during the creation of Russia, but I think it's
accepted that trade along the Volga (as far as the Caspian Sea) was largely in hands of
Scandinavians. Kiev
(capital of Ukraine)
was founded by some kind of Scandinavian warrior-elite. Whether these
Scandinavians were rather adventurers, merchants or pirates...or a bit of
everything: hard to tell I guess.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Kind
greetings,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Luc
Hellinckx, Halle</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p>
==============================END===================================
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