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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 03 March 2009 - Volume 04<br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.03 (03) [E]</span><br>
<br>
>From Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Ron wrote: What many people do not realize is
that Finnic languages used to be spread over a much larger area than they are
nowadays. For instance, what is now Western Russia, including St. Petersburg,
used to be Finnic-speaking, and t pockets of Finnic language communities still
remain in those areas. <br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I picked up a booklet when in Helsinki
Museum
about surveys done in the 20th century on existing pockets of Finno-Ugric
languages. The booklet was published in 1990Z<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">The Finno-Permyak Group</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">1. The Baltic Finns</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Finns 5 milllion
speakers</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Estonians 1,100,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Karelians 140,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Vepsians 8,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Votes 30</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Livonians 150</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">2. The Lapps or Samis 40,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">3. The Volgans</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Mordvinians 1,200,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Cheremis or Maris 620,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">4. The Permyaks</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Zyrans or Komis 480,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Votyaks or Udmurts 710,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">The Ugric Group</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">1. Ob-Ugrians</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Ostyaks of Khants 21,000</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Voguls or Mansis 7,600</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">2. The Hungarians 14,000,000<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Some of the pictures are very revealing: a
picture dated 1905 of a teepee is a summer camp of the Voguls on the lower
reaches of the Sosva ( tributary of the Ob?) and a 1900 photo of a village
gathering of Ostyaks and samoyeds could for all the worldhave been taken on a
North American Indian reservation, so similar do they look.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Just one question: Have the Votes survived?<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Heather</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Worcestershire</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span>, UK<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
Subject: History<br>
<br>
Thanks, Heather.<br>
<br>
Speakers of Votic are currently being estimated as counting less than 20.
However, as an ethnic group, the Votes will probably continue to exist for a
few more generations, albeit Russian speaking, much as it is the case in other
parts of Siberia, and using English, French, Spanish and Portuguese, among the
aboriginal peoples of the Americas. In such cases, songs, dances, folk craft,
rituals and customs tend to be remembered in the ancestral language, at least
for a while.<br>
<br>
In Livonia
(within today's Latvia)
a Livonian language revival effort of sorts is currently underway, the language
being used in some popular music as well.<br>
<br>
Absent from your list are the Ingrians (a.k.a. Izhorians), the indigenous
ethnicity of Ingermanland (Izhoria) along parts of Russia's
Baltic coast. Speakers of Ingrian are currently estimated at around 300.<br>
<br>
We can safely assume that a pretty large percentage of Russians of the area
around Lake
Ladoga
and the Russian coast of the Baltic
Sea are of more or less Finnic stock. Some cultural
institutions probably go straight back to the Finnic past, such as the Russian
steam bath (<span>баня <i>banya</i>)</span> which is obviously
connected with the Finnic sauna (Estonian <i>saun</i>, Livonian <i>sōna</i>
etc. < Proto-Finnic <i>*savńa</i> originally probably 'pit'; cf. Sami <i>suovdnji</i>
'pit dug into snow') which has relatives in sweat lodges throughout Siberia and
throughout North America. We might even
hypothesize that Russian phonology has been partly influenced by Finnic. When
you listen to some Finnic varieties, the Volga-Finnic languages especially
(Erzya, Mari, Merya, Meshcherian, Moksha, Muromian), you are not sure if they
are spoken with Russian accents or if Russian has been influenced by them.<br>
<br>
All of the Balto-Finnic peoples have been having more or less intensive
contacts with speakers of Slavic, Baltic and Germanic. Those that have lost
their ancestral languages and cultures have been gradually absorbed into the
ethnic majority populations, though Finnic substrata undoubtedly survive in the
local dialects of Slavic and Baltic. In addition, parts of these areas used to
be governed by Germany,
Denmark
and Sweden,
apart from long-standing Hanseatic contacts. So there were sustained contacts
with Germanic languages and cultures. <br>
<br>
By the way, for some time during the Middle Ages Denmark administered not only
all of the Jutland Peninsula (the southern border being in what is now within
Hamburg) but also much of what is now the state of Mecklenburg – Western
Pomerania as well as some adjacent areas to the east of it. This was a larger
area than that later occupied by Sweden.<br>
<br>
So, cultural and linguistic contacts and stratification abounded along the
southern and eastern shores of the Baltic Sea, areas previously
dominated by speakers of Slavic, Baltic and Finnic. And we have not even
mentioned the massive waves of Germanic eastward expansion from all over the
Western Lowlands, from Britain, from Southern Scandinavia and from areas
farther south in Germany.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Rin<br>
Seattle,
USA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p>
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