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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 03 March 2009 - Volume 03<br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.02 (01) [D/E]</span></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> Roger wrote i.a. in his fascinating exposition on
cricket:</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">1. Krik</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> in Belgian dialects (and in Dutch) is a jack (as one uses for lifting a
car or for supporting the tail of a plane against tail-tipping)<br>
cf. the French <b>cric<br>
</b><a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cric" target="_blank">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cric</a>
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Bloch in his dictionnaire étymologique refers to<br>
middle high German: kriek<br>
and middle low German: krich</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="FR">2. Cricket 1855, mot angl., <strong>peut-être d'origine fr.;</strong> on trouve au
xve s. <strong>criquet </strong>au sens
de "bâton servant de but au jeu de boule</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="FR"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">How odd!</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">In English the small ball thrown out as the target in bowls
is called ' the jack'!</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Heather</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Worcestershire</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">, UK</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span> <br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.02 (04) [E]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
I gather Finnish has several identifiable levels of Germanic borrowings:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Most
recently, as part of the Swedish Empire, they picked up a lot of Swedish words;</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Older
Scandinavian words crept in just by being neighbours;</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Mediaeval
lowlands words came with the Hansa;</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">But the
most interesting to me are words that are apparently much older, as they retain
proto-Germanic forms. These may have actually been absorbed on the
southern side of the Baltic, where Finnic languages were later replaced by
Slavic and Germanic ones. I recall the word for "field" or
"acre" being one such - though I can't remember what it is!</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Paul</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Derby</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">England</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
----------</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Paul, I think you mean Finnish <i>pelto</i>, Karelian <i>peldo</i>, Veps <i>pöud</i>,
Estonian <i>põld</i>; cf. Germanic <i>*felþa-</i> 'field'. Finnic languages do
not have an inherent /f/.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
Also, inherent Finnic structure does not permit initial consonant clusters, and
it tolerates consonant clusters in other positions only if they involve
sonorants as first elements.<br>
<br>
For instance Finnish <i>ranta</i>, Karelian <i>ranta</i>, Veps <i>rand</i>
'beach', 'coast', 'shore'; cf. Germanic <i>*strandō</i> 'beach', 'edge'.<br>
<br>
Some other early Germanic loans:<br></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
Finnish <i>valta</i> 'power', 'might'; cf. Germanic *<i>walda-</i></span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Finnish, Karelian <i>rauta</i>,
Estonian, Veps <i>raud</i> 'iron'; cf. Germanic *<i>reust(r)a-</i> 'plow iron'?</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Finnish <i>tuomita</i> 'to judge';
cf. Germanic *<i>dōmjan</i>?</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Finnish <i>keihäs</i> 'spear'; cf.
Germanic *<i>gaiza-</i>?</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Finnish <i>miekka</i>, Estonian <i>mõõk</i>
'sword'; Germanic *<i>mēkjaz</i></span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Finnish, Karelian, Estonian <i>lammas</i>, Livonian <i>lāmbas</i>,
Veps <i>lambaz</i> 'sheep'; cf. Germanic *<i>lambaz</i> 'lamb'</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Finnish <i>kauppa</i>, Estonian <i>kauba-</i> 'trade',
Livonian <i>kōb-</i>; cf. Germanic *<i>kaupō</i> 'trading', 'buying'</span></li></ul>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
There is an interesting couple of articles about early Indo-European (apparently
pre-Germanic) loans in Finnic:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/">http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/</a><br>
<a href="http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/substitutions.htm">http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/substitutions.htm</a><br>
<br>
What many people do not realize is that Finnic languages used to be spread over
a much larger area than they are nowadays. For instance, what is now Western
Russia, including St. Petersburg,
used to be Finnic-speaking, and t pockets of Finnic language communities still
remain in those areas. So it is reasonable to assume Finnic substrata in the
Slavic and Baltic languages that now predominate such areas, such as in Western
Russian and in certain Latvian dialects:</span></p>
<ul><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Ingrian/Izhorian on Russia's
shores of the Gulf of Finland and Lake
Ladoga (barely 300
speakers remaining)</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Karelian mostly in Russian areas bordering on Finland, some speaker communities in Finland</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Veps in the southeast of Russia's
Lake Ladoga</span></li><li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Võro and Seto in Estonia, with separate language
claims but generally considered part of Estonian</span></li></ul>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> And we are here not talking about the Volga-Finnic languages,
which are used farther east in Russia.<br>
<br>
So contacts between Uralic and Indo-European goes back a long, long time.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
<p>
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