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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="PT-BR">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 07 March 2009 - Volume 01<br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Heiko Evermann</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heiko.evermann@gmx.de">heiko.evermann@gmx.de</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Technica" 2009.03.06 (04) [E]</span><br>
<br>
Dear Roger</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> Many of us may have resources that date from the beginning of last century<br>
> or before.<br>
><br>
> These publications may be yellowing and becoming brittle.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> We could scan those publications before brittleness turns them completely<br>
> into power.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">That is a
good idea. I have prepared several books for<br>
<a href="http://pgdp.net/gutenberg.org" target="_blank">pgdp.net/gutenberg.org</a>.
Some were already scanned by google books,<br>
others I have scanned myself.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">><br>
> So I have a couple of questions.<br>
> 1 - What about legal rights?<br>
><br>
> - Can we scan, and publish on the web, an original print, after the
author<br>
> is dead for at least 70 years?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">If you pass
it through <a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a>, only the USA rules are
important.<br>
This means that everything before 1923 can be uses, independent from<br>
the death date of the author.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> - Do we have some rights on the scan (since we did it and the scanned<br>
> original copy is our property)?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">That
depends from where you live. In Germany
you don't, in the USA
you<br>
might. Gutenberg only "harvests" websites like <a href="http://google.org/" target="_blank">google.org</a> when there<br>
is a general agreement with the scan provider.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> Â E.g. I would state that my scans are my property and may not be
published<br>
> elswhere,<br>
> Â so that I can withdraw it all from my web pages in case a legal
issue<br>
> raises.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">If the user
is in Germany
you might not be able to enforce that. But<br>
if there are legal problems it might not be yours in that case.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> - What when cannot find the relevant data of the author, or in cases of an<br>
> anthology?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Then you
are in trouble, at least as far as <a href="http://gutenberg.org/" target="_blank">gutenberg.org</a> is concerned.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> - What in case of an original publishing house that still exists, the
author<br>
> being dead though for more then 70 years?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Again: <a href="http://gutenberg.org/" target="_blank">gutenberg.org</a> is satisfied if
the book is published before 1923<br>
(or was it 1922?). After that the USA uses a different time span so<br>
that books printed after 1923 will proably not be used by<br>
<a href="http://gutenberg.org/" target="_blank">gutenberg.org</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">><br>
> 2 - Technical stuff.<br>
><br>
> I would scan pages at 300 dpi; paste the saved jpg files in a word
doc and<br>
> safe finally in pdf format, for getting an acceptable resolution.<br>
><br>
> However the size of the pdf file can blow up and force me to split an<br>
> several parts.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">PDF based
on scans is not very useful. Better have them passed through<br>
<a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a> so that the text gets
extraced and corrected.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> I see in France
for old books they often leave things as one jpg file for<br>
> each page,<br>
> forcing to download page by page.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Who does
that? Gutenberg? Not to my knowledge.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> Further I have read somewhere that in the Gutenberg cercles they prefer<br>
> character recognition being applied and the content being saved in
txt<br>
> files.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a> is the main provider for <a href="http://gutenberg.org/" target="_blank">gutenberg.org</a>'s e-books. Go to<br>
<a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a>, there is a whole bunch
of friendly people who can help you.<br>
You would even find people who OCR your scans and do all the rest. We<br>
are always happy when we get good scans.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> This may give problems for representing some sounds represented by exotic<br>
> characters (I once had a problem with rspresenting "u-ring' in an old<br>
> Limburgish text, since it doesn't exist in html)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">During
proofreading such a letter would be represented as "[.u]" or<br>
whatever one might have to define. In Post Processing one would<br>
convert that to some viable HTML representation. I am sure that there<br>
is a solution, at least one could include that letter as a small<br>
inline image, each time it occurs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
> Further this requires a letter-by-letter check on errors, so one cannot<br>
> publish very fast.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">That is
exactly what <a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a> is made
for: three rounds of<br>
letter-by-letter checking on errors, two rounds on formatting and a<br>
good post-production round.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">><br>
> Lay-out and titles in the margin are also lost.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">They (<a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a>) will take care of all
that. Don't worry.<br>
<br>
Hope to see you soon on <a href="http://pgdp.net/" target="_blank">pgdp.net</a>.
If you have any questions, pgdp has<br>
a large number of online formums on things like content providing (how<br>
do I scan, what resolution), proofreading (what do I do with the<br>
exotic stuff in book xxx on page yyy) etc. You will always find<br>
someone who can help you.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Heiko Evermann</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Technica" 2009.03.06 (04) [E]</span><br>
<br></span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be" target="_blank">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<mailto:</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be" target="_blank">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">>></span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Subject: LL-L Technica</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Many of us may have resources that date from the beginning of last century or
before.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
These publications may be yellowing and becoming brittle.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Litterature in lowlands dialects is often a bit kitchy: "my mother
language", "in the shadow of our village tower" etc;, so often
of low literary value (so it will never be scanned by serious libraries), but
this stuff may still be very interesting as witness of a local language/dialect
variant.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
We could scan those publications before brittleness turns them completely into
power.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
So I have a couple of questions.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
 </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
1 - What about legal rights?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
- Can we scan, and publish on the web, an original print, after the author is
dead for at least 70 years?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
- Do we have some rights on the scan (since we did it and the scanned original
copy is our property)?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
 E.g. I would state that my scans are my property and may not be published
elswhere,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
 so that I can withdraw it all from my web pages in case a legal issue
raises.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
- What when cannot find the relevant data of the author, or in cases of an
anthology?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
- What in case of an original publishing house that still exists, the author
being dead though for more then 70 years?</span></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">If the
author is dead for more than 70 years the works are free and you can do with
them whatever you want. Publishing houses have no rights to them.<br>
You have no rights on the scan. Copyright only applies to intellectual work.
Scanning is just a mechanical task. So everybody can take your scans and do
with them whatever he wants. On the other side you can take the scans of others
(for example Google Books) and do with them whatever you want. Depending on the
jurisdiction of your country you may not be allowed to copy large portions of a
database (e.g. copying thousands of books from Google Books).<br>
Whether the original book is your property does not matter at all if the author
is dead for more than 70 years.<br>
If you cannot find the bibliographic data of the author you have to assume that
his works are not yet free except if its obvious he's dead more than 70 years
(e.g. you know the author is born 1830 but you don't know the year of death:
it's highly unlikely that he died age 110 or older, so you are safe to copy his
works).<br>
You can copy a single text from an anthology if the author of the single text
is dead for 70 years. You only can copy the whole anthology if all authors of
all texts and the creator of the anthology are dead for 70 years (at least if
creating the anthology was an act of intellectual work, if not, you can ignore
the creator).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br></span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">2 - Technical stuff.</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
I would scan pages at 300 dpi; paste the saved jpg files in a word doc and safe
finally in pdf format, for getting an acceptable resolution.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
However the size of the pdf file can blow up and force me to split an several
parts.</span></div>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">The
technical standard for scans is DJVu <<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DjVu" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DjVu</a>>.
It allows collecting the scans in a single file and has a very efficient
compression method.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
I see in </span>France<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
for old books they often leave things as one jpg file for each page,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
forcing to download page by page.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Further I have read somewhere that in the Gutenberg cercles they prefer
character recognition being applied and the content being saved in txt files.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
This may give problems for representing some sounds represented by exotic
characters (I once had a problem with rspresenting "u-ring' in an old
Limburgish text, since it doesn't exist in html)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Further this requires a letter-by-letter check on errors, so one cannot publish
very fast.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Lay-out and titles in the margin are also lost.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I recommend
using Wikisource instead of Gutenberg or similar projects. Wikisource supports
all Unicode characters and full layout. But of course Wikisource too strives
for corrected texts and not raw OCRs only. I guess that's something all
digitalization projects want.<br>
<br>
Limburgish Wikisource is under <<a href="http://li.wikisource.org/" target="_blank">http://li.wikisource.org/</a>> and a Low Saxon version can
be found under <<a href="http://www.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:nds" target="_blank">http://www.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:nds</a>> (not yet a
project of its own, but part of the multilingual Wikisource).<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Marcus Buck</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Theo Homan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:theohoman@yahoo.com">theohoman@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Technica" 2009.03.06 (04) [E]</span><br>
<br>
> From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.<br>
> <<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>><br>
> Subject: LL-L Technica<br>
></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">[...]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">> 1 -
What about legal rights?<br>
><br>
> - Can we scan, and publish on the web, an original print,<br>
> after the author<br>
> is dead for at least 70 years?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">[...]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">><br>
<br>
> From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Technica</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">[...]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">><br>
> I let others answer about the copyright issue. I'm not<br>
> well versed at that<br>
> and would like to know the answer myself.<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Hi,<br>
<br>
Yes, oh yes, everybody would like to know.<br>
The copyright issue is complicated; especially in the usa.<br>
If my memory is serving me: the Walt Disney Corporation has made it more
complicated than ever by their juridical actions to protect their products for
ever.<br>
<br>
But in general: for educational and scholarly publications and purposes the
rules are much less strict, provided the texts are of a limited extent, and are
not intended as a golddigging vehicle.<br>
<br>
I'm wondering that a couple of usa
university lawyers still haven't sorted it out for the [internet] publicum.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://vr.gr/" target="_blank">vr.gr</a>.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Theo Homan</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com"><span style="color: windowtext;">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>><br>
Subject: Technica<br>
<br>
My name isn't Roger, but for myself I say, "Thanks lots and lots,
guys."<br>
<br>
So, just for people like <i>moi</i> who are a little slower on the uptake ... <br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Example
scenario:<br>
An author has been dead for over 70 years. Someone finds his or her poems
scattered on bits of paper all over a musty attic. The finder collects these
found poems and publishes them in an anthology. This is clearly the only
published source of that poet's works. Can someone else then use the poems in
his or her own publication without asking for permission?<br>
<br>
Theo, you wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I'm
wondering that a couple of usa
university lawyers still haven't sorted it out for the [internet] publicum.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">I wonder if
this is because it's too easy to be sued in this country. If you explain the
law and publish it, and someone then commits a crime and says it's because he
or she thought it wasn't a crime because of the wording of your explanation ...
Oops! (It can be like that with medical advice as well.) So I guess the only really
safe way is to publish the entirety of the copyright laws without your own comments,
interpretation and explanation. This is just my hunch.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
•
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