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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">===========================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 18 March 2009 - Volume 05<br>
===========================================</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Wolfram Antepohl</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolfram@antepohl.se">wolfram@antepohl.se</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.18 (01) [A/E]<br>
<br>
</span>Ron, let me bring in all my authority as a physician (Of course you
would trust a doctor?): You're completely right - the German workd "Achsel"
mean shoulder. Look at words like "Achselzucken" (difficult to do
that with your armpits). The same is true for all Scandinavian languages (as
pointed out earlier). I think confusion is due to medical terminology, where we
even use latin "axilla" - armpit. It's difficult to keep those two
words and their meanings apart - even for doctors.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Greetings</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Wolfram</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F.
Hahn <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span class="yshortcuts"><span id="lw_1237415621_1">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></span></a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Subject: Etymology</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Yes, Paul, as I like to remind people once in a while, it seems to boil down to
a small number of root words, in Indo-European alone (not to speak of earlier,
larger connections, which I am pretty sure there are).</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
By the way, I feel dubious about German </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Achsel</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> as ‘armpit’. I have a
feeling that earlier it denoted the shoulder joint (as probably did its
cognates in other languages). I’m saying this because dialectically it competes
with </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Achselhöhle</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">, thus the “hollow” of the </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Achsel</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">. Also, there’s
the derivative </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Achselband</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> for a strap to hold a sleeveless garment up
from the shoulder (e.g. a spaghetti strap). Does anyone know more about this?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
(By the way, Paul, “axle” > “shoulder joint” seems to be the connection, and
that goes back to </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">*aks-</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> *” pivot”, apparently to IE *</span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">ag-</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> ‘to
pivot’, the </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">-s-</i> nominalizing as in <i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">*reg-</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> ‘to rule’ > *</span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">reg-s</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
> Latin </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">rex</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> ‘ruler’, ‘king’; and “axle” is a diminutive form (*</span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">ag-s-l</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">).)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Also, what’s the Low Saxon (of </span>Germany<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">)
for the same thing? I can only come up with </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Schuller</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> (“shoulder”) for
the shoulder joint and </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">ünner’n Arm</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> (“under the arm”) or </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Ünnerarm</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
(“under-arm”) for the armpit (as in English “under-arm deodorant”).</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Cheerio!</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Seattle, USA</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">----------</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology"</span></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">Beste Elsie,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">You wrote:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Na aanleiding vn Luc se possie oor die
oksel agter die knie, in Afrikaans noem ons dit die 'waai'.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> "Jahja" lyk my ook 'n ekker
woord daarvoor!</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Afrikaansprekendes se oksel word ook
'kieliebakkie' genoem. </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Ek sluit in 'n prettige artikel van
Cecile Celliers wat op 11 Maart in Die Beeld verskyn het.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Groete,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Elsie Zinsser</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Beeld-deurloop: Hoeveelste woord moet
waai?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> Mar 11 2009 06:29:52:427PM -
(SA) </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> De Boinod fokus veral op die
eienaardighede, die verskille in die tale wat ons praat en op amusante woorde
in die verskillende tale. Afrikaans kom ook etlike kere in die boek voor – die
interessantste voorbeeld is waarskynlik die woord “waai”, vir die agterkant van
die knie, wat glo net in een ander taal ter wêreld voorkom, in die Australiese
Aborigine-Wagiman-taal, waar die ekwivalent jahja is.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Nice
article. To my knowledge there is indeed no good translation in English for
Dutch/Afrikaans "hoeveelste". There is a good reply though if you
don't know the answer...the umpteenth one *s*.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"Waai"
on the other hand, is not as unique as you may think, it's known in German (and
other Dutch dialects) as: Wade, usually denoting the calf of a person's leg. In
Brabantish we call it "braai", but use it mostly in plural
"braaien" ('k em ne schup tegen majn bråån g'ad...somebody kicked my
calves).</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Which
reminds me of a nice word we use in Brabantish for "groin":
uëgnissen... ~ Latin "inguen", but pretty old already, Kiliaan
registered it in the 16th century.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">A good
article about all the different words that are used in Brabantish to describe
the back of a person's knee can be read here:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cta2u7" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cta2u7</a></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">There's
also a "huk" in the expression we use for "to squat":
"op uw hukske zitten"=...related with "oksel"? Anyway, it's
probably not cognate with Standard Dutch "hurken".</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Kind
greetings,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Luc
Hellinckx</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
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