<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 02 May 2009 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br>
===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Idiomatica"<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Beste Lucas,</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Re "Are you still working on that?":</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div>You wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite">
Although I'm American and have thus heard it my entire life, I think of
it as nearing the end of a really good meal that you want to finish but
are having troubles fitting in your stomach ; )  It _is_ work to
finish some meals, even when you want to!<br>
I think it would also be neat to look into the semantics of the phrase
"work on" and also to see how the instances when it is used relate to
each other.  Clearly when we hear the phrase we don't think of any bad
connotations regarding the word "work", or think of what we're doing as
something that we don't want to do.<br></blockquote><div>In
Dutch you can also say "iets naar binnen werken" when you want to
stress the mechanical act of eating. For example: "De arbeiders werkten
hun eten schrokkerig naar binnen omdat ze maar weinig schafttijd
hadden" (note: this "schaft" is related to the whole
schoftig/schochtig, schuftig/schuchtig, schiftig/schichtig-complex that
we discussed earlier on).</div><div><br></div><div>The context of a
restaurant is however completely different. As far as I know, people
don't bring their own food to a restaurant. If a waiter serves you food
(casually or not, it's still a service, an act in the end), he is there
to actually bring and take it away (unless you want him to wrap the
rest in a box...another americanism). Many people here regard wining
and dining as something enjoyable, something festive. That good mood
would be entirely spoilt, as soon as they felt that a waiter is urging
them on, asking organisational questions. No matter how friendly his
tone, it could break the magic.</div><div><br></div><div>Are you sure this same phrase is also in use in high-class American restaurants?</div><div><br></div><div>Kind greetings,</div><div><br></div><div>Luc Hellinckx</div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Mari Sarv</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mari@haldjas.folklore.ee">mari@haldjas.folklore.ee</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.01 (06) [E]<br><br></span><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Beste Luc,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span>(How one
expression can tell more about ethics than a whole dissertation)</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I couldn’t believe it too.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Is that, how you feel about work?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Then, what’s the value of „work” in your society?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Don’t you just like the things you have to do in your life or is
it more general?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have been taught to work only with love, commitment and „eerbied”
towards it.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Which are the connotations of the word „work” in lowlands
languages?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mari Sarv</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Aberdeen, Scotland</span></p>
<div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><span>
From: <span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span></span><span> </span><span><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com" target="_blank">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span>LL-L "Delectables"</span><br>
<br>
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></span></p>
<p><span>OK, the
question may have somewhat lost its initial meaning, but to a high degree it
still reflects the predominant value of "work" in American society.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><span></span></p><p><span>
To work?!?</span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p><span>It really
sounds as if "eating" is some necessary evil that you have to get
over with as soon as possible. Something that you may even have to feel guilty
about? Is eating considered like a job? In my opinion, it's the waiter who
should be working and not the customer. Part of his job is to serve and make
customers feel at ease. To my knowledge, "Ober" is not short for
"Obersturmbahnführer" ;=)</span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p><span>Kind
greetings,</span></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Luc
Hellinckx</span></p>
</div>
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------<br><br>From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.01 (06) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I just want to comment on an idiom that I've noticed recently in
cafes and bars etc. If I'm ordering something, I tend say "Can I have
a.....please?" or "I'll have a ......please", or even "A......please".</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>These days I often hear "Can I get a.....please?". It seems
to be age-related, mainly people under 30-ish as far as I can tell (I'm
in my fifties).</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I can't recall it being common usage in the past, and it doesn't sound familiar from American films or TV.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Anybody have any thoughts or experiences on this? Is it perhaps a
common construction in some other language that has found its way into
English?</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Paul Finlow-Bates</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Derby</div>
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">England</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Idiomatica<br><br>Luc, Luke, Mari and the rest of "you lot" (to use a British expression), we seem to be dealing with customs and attitudes reflected in idiom.<br>
<br>Yes, Americans, too, go to restaurants on special occasions, such as when dating and celebrating. And, yes, you're likely to find that waiters use a less familiar tone in the more "upscale" restaurants, many of which feature European cuisines and ambiances. A very casual American tone would probably be perceived as non-authentic. (It is only in that sort of restaurant that I have ever encountered truly snooty waiters </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">à l'européenne</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">.) The majority of restaurants -- and we ought to call them more loosely "eateries" -- have casual atmospheres, are often referred to as "family restaurants".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">You need to bear in mind that eating out is far more common in North America, or even </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">the </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Americas, than in Europe, and there are far more small, casual eateries, including the so-called "delis" in Northeastern America, which are relatively inexpensive (and I stress "relatively") and are also meeting places (similar to the old-time </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Gaststätten</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> in Germany). And nowadays there are all those "food malls" everywhere, many of them with very inexpensive food. It is often frustrating for American tourists that casual, inexpensive eateries are not easily found or recognizable in Europe. It is only the more savvy among them that do prior homework and thus seek out pubs in Britain and Ireland, bistros in French-speaking areas, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Gaststätten</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> in German-speaking areas, etc.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Many Americans eat out all the time. Many do not even know how to cook. (If they don't eat out they'll heat store-bought frozen dinners in their microwave ovens.) So eating out casually is similar to eating at home. That's in a different class from the occasional visit to a fancy restaurant.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Perhaps this explains it a bit better.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Paul, I have a feeling that "Can I get a.....please?" predominates in the States.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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