<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 13 May 2009 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L Language Politics<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id=":17" class="ii gt">
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<div>I understand there are 2 European treaties:</div>
<div>- one for recognizing the <strong>existence of minority languages</strong>
ECRML</div>
<div>- one for <strong>supporting the minority groups</strong> <strong>related
to</strong>, among others, <strong>a minority language</strong> FCNM</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>Does anyone have an idea why the Germans included <strong>Low
Saxon</strong> in the first group only?</div>
<div>I guess a Regional language  (Regionalsprache) is not
supposed by the Germans to get the same protection as a Minority
language (Minderheitensprache)? However a regional language can become a
minority language, I think.</div>
<div>FCNM is apparently much stronger for getting one's rights protected in
courts.</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>I understood at the conference in Leuven last week that Irish cannot be
protected by the FCNM in Ireland, since it is formally the first language in the
Irish constitution, and by this, it cannot be considered as a minority
language.</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><font size="2">Some references:</font></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><strong>1 - ECRML</strong></div>
<div><a href="http://conventions.coe.int/treaty/en/Treaties/Html/148.htm" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://conventions.coe.int/treaty/en/Treaties/Html/148.htm</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Reports/Html/148.htm" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Reports/Html/148.htm</font></a></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Charter_for_Regional_or_Minority_Languages" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Charter_for_Regional_or_Minority_Languages</font></a></div>
<div><font size="2">The <b>European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages</b>
(<b>ECRML</b>) is a European </font><a title="Treaty" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty" target="_blank"><font size="2">treaty</font></a><font size="2"> (CETS 148) adopted in 1992 under the auspices of the </font><a title="Council of Europe" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe" target="_blank"><font size="2">Council of
Europe</font></a><font size="2"> to protect and promote historical </font><a title="Regional language" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_language" target="_blank"><font size="2">regional</font></a><font size="2"> and </font><a title="Minority language" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_language" target="_blank"><font size="2">minority
languages</font></a><font size="2"> in </font><a title="Europe" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe" target="_blank"><font size="2">Europe</font></a><font size="2">.</font></div>
<div><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europ%C3%A4ische_Charta_der_Regional-_oder_Minderheitensprachen" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europäische_Charta_der_Regional-_oder_Minderheitensprachen</font></a></div>
<div><font size="2">Die Charta wurde durch die Bundesregierung 1998 ratifiziert.
Durch Hinterlegung beim Europarat verpflichtet sich Deutschland fünf
Minderheitensprachen und eine Regionalsprache zu schützen, wobei sich die
Maßnahmen auf die Bundesländer beschränken, in denen die Sprache verbreitet ist.
Die Minderheitensprachen: </font><a title="Dänische Sprache" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A4nische_Sprache" target="_blank"><font size="2">Dänisch</font></a><font size="2"> (in Schleswig-Holstein), Sorbisch
(</font><a title="Obersorbisch" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obersorbisch" target="_blank"><font size="2">Obersorbisch</font></a><font size="2"> in Sachsen, </font><a title="Niedersorbisch" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niedersorbisch" target="_blank"><font size="2">Niedersorbisch</font></a><font size="2"> in Brandenburg), </font><a title="Nordfriesisch" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordfriesisch" target="_blank"><font size="2">Nordfriesisch</font></a><font size="2"> (in Schleswig-Holstein), </font><a title="Saterfriesisch" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saterfriesisch" target="_blank"><font size="2">Saterfriesisch</font></a><font size="2"> (in Niedersachsen) und </font><a title="Romanes" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanes" target="_blank"><font size="2">Romanes</font></a><font size="2"> (geschützt nach Teil 2 seit 1998, erst später Hinzufügung nach Teil 3 in
Hessen). Die Regionalsprache </font><a title="Niederdeutsch" href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederdeutsch" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Niederdeutsch</font></a><font size="2"><font color="#ff0000"> (in Bremen,
Hamburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Niedersachsen und Schleswig-Holstein nach Teil
3, in Brandenburg, Nordrhein-Westfalen und Sachsen-Anhalt nach Teil
2</font>).</font></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europees_Handvest_voor_regionale_talen_of_talen_van_minderheden" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europees_Handvest_voor_regionale_talen_of_talen_van_minderheden</font></a></div>
<div><font size="2">Land Ondertekening Geratificeerd Inwerkingtreding Erkende
talen <br>Duitsland 05-11-1992 16-09-1998 01-01-1999 Deens, <font color="#ff0000">Nederduits,</font> Nedersorbisch, Noord-Fries, Oppersorbisch,
Romani, Saterfries <br>Nederland 05-11-1992 02-05-1996 01-03-1998 Fries,
Jiddisch, Limburgs, Nedersaksisch, Romani </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Verenigd Koninkrijk 02-03-2000 27-03-2001 01-07-2001 Cornisch,
Iers-Gaelisch, Manx-Gaelisch, Schots en Ulster Schots, Schots-Gaelisch, Welsh
</font></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><strong>2 - FCNM</strong></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/1_AtGlance/PDF_H%281995%29010_FCNM_ExplanReport_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/1_AtGlance/PDF_H(1995)010_FCNM_ExplanReport_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_National_Minorities" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_National_Minorities</font></a></div>
<div><font size="2">In February 1995, 22 member States of the </font><a title="Council of Europe" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe" target="_blank"><font size="2">Council of
Europe</font></a><font size="2">, signed the <b>Framework Convention for the
Protection of National Minorities</b> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">In the 2006 UK Government's draft 'UK Framework Convention
Compliance Report', <font color="#ff0000">the </font></font><a title="Cornish people" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_people" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Cornish</font></a><font size="2"><font color="#ff0000">
ethnicity was the only group specifically mentioned as being excluded</font>.
The UK has stated to the Council of Europe that it does not know which groups
are covered since there is no official list of groups but despite this admission
they still feel able to assert that they comply fully with the Framework
Convention.</font></div>
<div><strong></strong>Â </div>
<div><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaderverdrag_inzake_de_bescherming_van_nationale_minderheden" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaderverdrag_inzake_de_bescherming_van_nationale_minderheden</font></a></div>
<div><font size="2">Land / Ondertekening / Ratificatie / Van kracht / Nationale
minderheden (indien gespecifieerd) </font></div>
<div><font size="2"><strong>Duitsland</strong> 11-05-1995 10-09-1997 01-02-1998
<font color="#ff0000">Denen, Sorben; tevens bescherming van Friezen, Roma en
Sinti</font> </font></div>
<div><font size="2"><strong>Nederland</strong> 01-02-1995 16-02-2005 01-06-2005
Friezen </font></div>
<div><strong></strong>Â </div>
<div><strong><font size="2">Reports about Germany:</font></strong></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/Table_en.asp#Germany" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/Table_en.asp#Germany</font></a></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><strong><font size="2">1th reporting cycle</font></strong></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_SR_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_SR_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_OP_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_OP_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_Com_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_Com_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_CM_Res_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_1st_CM_Res_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><strong><font size="2">2d reporting cycle</font></strong></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_SR_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_SR_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_OP_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_OP_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_Com_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_Com_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_CM_Res_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_2nd_CM_Res_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div><strong></strong>Â </div>
<div><strong><font size="2">3d reporting cycle</font></strong></div>
<div><a href="http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_3rd_SR_Germany_en.pdf" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/minorities/3_FCNMdocs/PDF_3rd_SR_Germany_en.pdf</font></a></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Roger<br><br>----------<br><br></font><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>> </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Subject: </span>Language politics<br><br>Thanks, Roger.<br><br>You asked:<br><br><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Does anyone have an idea why the Germans included </span><strong style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Low
Saxon</strong><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> in the first group only?</span><br></div><br>In Germany, speakers of Low Saxon are not considered a separate ethnic group. In other words, they are considered ethnic Germans. (References to the Old Saxons are kept to a minimum for public consumption outside the academic realm, hence the re-christening of Old Saxon to "Old Low German" and Middle Saxon to "Middle Low German".) Maybe this answers your question.<br>
</div></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">On the bright side, this at least represents a departure from the old model "one ethnicity = one language".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
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