<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 28 May 2009 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2009.05.27 (05) [EN]<br><br></span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><font size="3"><p>
>From Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></p>
<p>I'm not sure where Michael found his 80 odd examples from. Â I have
just googled for 'a half ate sandwich' and no examples appeared.</p>
<p>I found his single 'half ate hamburger'</p>
<p>I did also find a single example for 'broke' as an adjective -n" A
broke filter, engine or gear-box ?" from an american company so, like
Paul, I would put this down as an americanism.</p>
<p>I feel as if I will bring the wrath of linguists round the world
down on my head, if I make the next most logical move - which is to say
- perhaps these people were speaking sloppily and made mistakes! People
do , you know!</p>
<p>Instead I will make the more balanced comment which is to say that
archaisms often linger longest in 'new' versions of a language (
american Fall / gotten) so whereas the half ate / broke adjectives
might still be current - tho' Google would make them appear not very
current - in America, they certainly aren't here in the UK. I did
clearly say I was referring to RP English and the moment I said that
rights and wrongs of other variations were not being taken into account.</p>
<p>Something can be right in RP and wrong in Estuary English e.g. I
have done it RP I done it EE. In RP 'th' medially is 'th' (both
voiced and voiceless) in EE it is 'v' e.e.g bruvver  farver muver.</p>
<p>There is no one universal English and hasn't been for years but it
is still possible to make judgements and say "In such and such a
circumstance for Y variety of English X would not be correct" and it
works both ways for RP English, EE, Somerset, Sussex, even fading fast
here Worcestershire dialect etc etc etc.</p>
<p>re past participles: some -en endings remain(ed) as adjectives long
after the past participles had lost them. Even -ed endings can be
archaic in pronunciation e.g. beloved can be either 'beloved' or
'belov- ed'. These two now have separate meanings.</p>
<p>from Heather</p>
<p>who is grrrrrrring just a little</p></font></font><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">---------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>> </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: Grammar<br><br>Folks,<br><br>Watching some news reports this morning I was reminded of a couple of idiomatic American expressions that, seen from a grammatical standpoint,</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> seem contradictory.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"</span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Not hardly</b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">as e.g. in "But are the residents prepared for the massive loss of jobs? Not hardly!"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Technically, the "not" seems to negate the "hardly"; "hardly" alone should suffice.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"</span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">All ... are not ...</b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">" = "Not all ... are ..."</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">as e.g. in "All Australians are not royalists," ...</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> could be understood as meaning ... where I would say, "Not all Australians are royalists," because it is "all (Australians)" that is negated, not "are royalists." Technically, "All Australians are not royalists" could be understood as meaning "No Australians are royalists."</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************