<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 13 June 2009 - Volume 08<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Beste Ron,</span></font><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font><div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">You wrote:</span></font></div></div></div><blockquote style="border: medium none ; margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 40px; padding: 0px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i><br></i></span></font><span style="font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><i>Old
Saxon has mikil for 'big', 'large', 'great'. I assume it's pronounced
like "mickil". It's the same in Old Low Frankish. Old German has mihhil
which would have to become *michel or *mechel. </i></span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br></i><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" color="#144fae" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i><br></i></span></font><span style="font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><i>The
old name (recorded in 995) is indeed Mikilinburg. A referred to the
fortress built there. The Middle Saxon name is Mekelenborch.</i></span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br></i><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" color="#144fae" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i><br></i></span></font><span style="font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><i>In Lower Saxony, just south of Hamburg, there is a town called Meckelfeld. I assume this is derived from *Mikilfeld.</i></span></blockquote>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Phonetically
speaking, Mecklenburg should indeed have -k- (and not -ch-).
"Mecklenbeck", southwest of Münster, may also contain this word
mikil...even though I guess the "Mecklenbach" may not be a very large
stream.</span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Â </span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">What
puzzled me though, is that Kiliaan cited "Mechelburg" for the region
and "Mechelburgher" for an inhabitant. First I thought, well maybe he
just copied the High German pronunciation, but when I checked other
cities in the North I saw that he consistently avoided High German:
Hamborgh, Danswijck, Sleswijck, Maeghdenborgh/Meydenborgh... Moreover
it seems that older Danish and Swedish were also using the term
"Mechelburg":</span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://www.skjaldesang.ibit.dk/estrato.php?Page=vissang&sid=578" target="_blank">http://www.skjaldesang.ibit.dk/estrato.php?Page=vissang&sid=578</a></span></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://www.skjaldesang.dk/estrato.php?Page=vissang&sid=557" target="_blank">http://www.skjaldesang.dk/estrato.php?Page=vissang&sid=557</a></span></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://www.statensarkiv.se/default.aspx?id=9686&refid=1170" target="_blank">http://www.statensarkiv.se/default.aspx?id=9686&refid=1170</a></span></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Mid 18th century, Johann Christoph Gottsched wrote:</span></font></div><div><span style="line-height: 17px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></span></div></div></div><blockquote style="border: medium none ; margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 40px; padding: 0px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>Ich schreibe mit Bedacht Mechelburg; denn so soll dieß Wort geschrieben werden, um seinen Ursprung anzuzeigen. Es kömmt von </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>Michel</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>,
welches vormals groß hieß, und mit dem griechischen μεγαλος
übereinstimmte, u. von Burg: Michelburg, oder Mechelburg heißt also die </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>große Burg</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>: so wie hingegen Luxenburg, oder Lützelburg, wie es die Alten schrieben, </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>die kleine Burg hieß</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>. Damit stimmet denn auch die Benennung MEGALOPOLIS sehr wohl überein. Und vieleicht kömmt selbst die Benennung, ein</i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>Deutscher Michel</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>,
bloß daher, daß die alten Deutschen mehrentheils große ansehnliche
Leute gewesen. Denn der hebräische Namen Michael schicket sich hier gar
nicht her. Man will mir die Rechtschreibung von Mechelburg
abdisputiren. Allein, ich habe ein altes Manuscript deutscher
Heldenlieder von 1400 und etlichen 80: darinn steht beym
mecklenburgischen Wapen:Â </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>Balthasar von Gotz Gnaden Herczog czu Mechelwurgk</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>.
Wer beym k bleiben will, kann es indessen thun. Ich zeige nur den Sinn
und Ursprung. Daß aber Rostock, wie man mich bereden will, von </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>Roß</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>, ein Pferd, und </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>tock</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>,
ein Zug, d.i. einem Aufzuge zu Pferde herkomme, werde ich schwerlich
glauben. Ich weis längst, daß dieß Wort wendischer Abkunft ist; so gut,
als Lübeck und Leipzig selbst. Wären Ritterspiele da gehalten worden:
so müßte es vorher schon eine Stadt gewesen seyn, die darum ihren Namen
nicht geändert haben würde. Warum hieße es nicht gar </i></span></font><span style="letter-spacing: 0.2em;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>Rasttag</i></span></font></span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><i>?</i></span></font></span></blockquote>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sure, one can hardly refrain from laughing when he tries to explain the name "Michael", but he too mentions "Mechelwurgk".</span></font></span></div>
<div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Regarding
Mechelen, city in Belgium, De Vries had his doubts, either the name
derives from *magalinum (~ Sanskrit "maha") or from "mahla" (tribunal).
He seemed to prefer the latter explanation, which is cognate with
German "Gemahl" and "vermählen".</span></font></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Kind greetings,</span></font></span></div>
<div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 20px;"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Luc Hellinckx, Halle</span></font></span></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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