<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 13 June 2009 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Henno Brandsma</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.12 (04) [EN]<br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: Diederik Masure <span><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com" target="_blank">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2009.06.12 (02) [EN]<br><br>Johnny: but in modern Westlauwer frisian it is kaam/kôm, hmm. <br>
</div> <div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im"> Greetings, <br> Diederik<br><br>----------<br> <br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Language varieties</div><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> Hey, Diederik!</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Sure, and in Sater Frisian (the only surviving variety of East Frisian) it is <i>koom</i>, in Fering (Föhr </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">North Frisian) it's <i>kaam</i>, etc.<div class="im"> </div></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/seeltersk.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/seeltersk.php</a></div>
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/fering.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/fering.php</a></div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">
<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/frysk-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/frysk-info.php</a></div></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">
But you seem to be assuming that <i>kweym</i>
etc. in Eastern Friesland Low Saxon is due to a Frisian substratum. It
doesn't have to be. Apart from having Frisian substrata, these Low
Saxon varieties tend to be rather "archaic", conservative within a
purely Low Saxon context as well</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im"> </div></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">After the Saxon and Dutch
political takeovers resulted in the loss of local Frisian language
varieties, East Frisians began to cling to their own varieties of Low
Saxon as one expression of their ethnic identity. Their linguistic and
cultural expressions of East Frisian identity aim at distinguishing
them from other speakers of Low Saxon. Linguistically, their forms of
Low Saxon have been serving as substitutes for lost Frisian ones. But
this is not to say that their distinction relies entirely on Frisian
substrata. Being used in Germany, lots of Dutch loanwords play another
role, going back to periods when Eastern Friesland was ruled or
otherwise directly influenced by the Netherlands.</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">According to
my experiences, most East Frisians embrace their Frisian roots, unlike
most Low Saxon speakers of Groningen who live nextdoor to relatively
"powerful" communities of West (Westerlauwer) Frisian speakers from
whom their want to distinguish themselves. I am pretty sure that the
average speaker of East Frisian Low Saxon can not distinguish Low Saxon
archaisms (such as <i>kweym</i>) from forms that owe to Frisian
substrata. Just as long as it's different from Low Saxon outside their
region! I've been told that the Low Saxon translations of the Harry
Potter series were pretty much rejected in Eastern Friesland because
they were written in a "foreign" dialect</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im"> </div></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">Regards,</div>
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">Reinhard/Ron<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="im">Seattle, USA</div></span><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> Hoi Diederik, Ron!</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Let's
not forget that in Old Frisian we do have forms like "quam" and
"quemen" (single and plural). So at the time the East Frisians shifted
their language, the 2- forms were still present, presumably, so they
would have supported the more conservative varieties of Low Saxon.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><div>Henno</div></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Diederik Masure</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.12 (04) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">De Ron dieje schreef: </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im">
>But you seem to be assuming that <i>kweym</i> etc. in Eastern Friesland Low Saxon is due to a Frisian substratum. It doesn't have to be. Apart <br>
>from having Frisian substrata, these Low Saxon
varieties tend to be rather "archaic", conservative within a purely Low
Saxon context as well.<br><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
I didn't, I was stating the exact opposite... the original post
(Johnny)Â thought the w in kweym came from Frisian, that's why I posted
to show at least Modern Frisian doesn't have any -w- there so it would
be unlikely to be Frisian influence. </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
 </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
And them being more archaic LS I can understand, like Belgians, when
adapting Standard Dutch, often (unconsciously) use words that are seen
as archaic in the North, and not necessarily because those words occur
in our dialects, but also other words. I suppose people taking over
another prestige language will always be more conservative in it and
archaic? </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
 </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Diederik</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Language varieties<br><br>Ha, die Henno en Diederik!<br><br>Thanks for the bit of information, Henno, informative and thought-provoking as usual, especially when it comes to Frisian.<br>
<br>En ongze Diërik, dieje schreef:<br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I didn't, I was stating the exact opposite... the original post
(Johnny)Â thought the w in kweym came from Frisian, that's why I posted
to show at least Modern Frisian doesn't have any -w- there so it would
be unlikely to be Frisian influence. <br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Aha! That's where the misunderstanding arose! We had pretty much the same thought but somehow read Jonny's lines somewhat differently:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">In the (whole?)
area of Eastern Friesland "ick kweym" ("I came") still is in daily
use, and even in our region you might hear it now and then - perhaps as a result
of the historical western, i.e. Frisian and Dutch
influence.</span><br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I took his "perhaps ..." phrase as a vague added thought rather than as a real opinion and as his actual point.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Anyway, sorry that I misunderstood you, and happy that we actually agree.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">This settled (?), I'd like to shift to a related topic, related also to the issue of northern vs southern Dutch.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Do not also the Dutch dialects of historical Holland (i.e. roughly today's Netherlands provinces of Northern and Southern Holland) have considerable old Frisian substrata? Apparently, Frisian used to be spoken in a broad band pretty much all the way along the coast of today's Netherlands, with older, and perhaps less concentrated presence along what are now the southern parts of the Netherlands and Northern Belgium. My rough assumption is that Frisian language density used to be stronger in the north, used to be mostly coastal, and that consequently Frisian substrata in coastal Dutch are stronger in the north.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">If this assumption is justified, I wonder if some differences between northern and southern Dutch varieties owe to degrees of intensity of Frisian substrata, or in many cases the presence and absence of them. This is aside from the issue of conservatism which is clearly stronger in southern varieties. (Or maybe I should rather say that the influential coastal northern varieties are very innovative.)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Since Frisian was and is essentially a coastal language (though there used to be Frisian communities that lived a good way away from the coast), I wonder if we should look at differences between coastal and inland Dutch varieties as well, "inland" here meaning "outside the sphere of direct Frisian influence". This would exclude the entire north of the Netherlands, since most Low Frankish and Low Saxon varieties there have been under some degree of Frisian influence or other.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">One difference that springs to mind right away is what I personally term "Rhenish" features of the far-eastern Low Frankish varieties. These seem to be areal rather than genealogical features. First and foremost among these (at least in </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">my</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> mind) is velarization of /n/ (as in "thi</span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">n</b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">" and "si</span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">nn</b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">er") to /Å‹/ ([N], as in "thi</span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ng</b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">" and "si</span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ng</b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">er"). </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">This feature is predominant in Ripuarian, which is Central Frankish, thus outside the Low Frankish sphere:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ripoaresch-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ripoaresch-info.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ripoaresch-koelsch.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ripoaresch-koelsch.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">For instance, in Cologne Ripuarian, *</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">din</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> 'the (masc. acc.)' is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ding</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">*sinem</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> 'his (dat.)' is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">singem</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, and *</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">schände </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(> *</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">schänne</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">)</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">schänge</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> 'to scold'.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The closer we get to the Rhine region, the more frequent this feature seems to be in Low Frankish, thus in the Lowlands area, as well. You find it in some Brabantish, Limburgish and Cleves Low Frankish varieties, for instance.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></span><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brabantish:</b><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants-intro.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants-intro.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Present:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Antwerp: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants-antwerpen.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants-antwerpen.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">e.g. </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">monster</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> > </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">mongster, ons </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ongs</i><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Apparently absent:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Merchtem: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Rosmalen: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants-rosmalen.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/brabants-rosmalen.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Limburgish:<br></b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-info.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Present:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Vliermal: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-vliermaal.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-vliermaal.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">e.g. *</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">kinder</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> > </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">kénger</i><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Apparently absent:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brunssum: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-brunssum.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-brunssum.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Bilzen: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-bilzen.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-bilzen.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><b style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Cleves Low Frankish:<br></b><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kleverlands-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kleverlands-info.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Present:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Solingen: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-berjisch.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-berjisch.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">e.g. *</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">schänden </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">schängen</i><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Apparently absent:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Venlo: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-venlo.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-venlo.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Mülheim: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Cuijk: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kuuks.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kuuks.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Liemers: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/liemers.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/liemers.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I am not saying that this is a major distinguishing feature in Low Frankish. What I am trying to propose is that it is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">one</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> distinguishing areal feature within eastern varieties of Low Frankish.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Any comments?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************