<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 15 June 2009 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology"<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Beste Ron,</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br><div><div>You wrote:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Another such Low Saxon adjective-adverb is /basch/. I don't yet know its etymology. From French /bas/ 'low' perhaps?<br>
</blockquote> <br></div>
Dat dücht mi eenfach, dat is dat sülve Woord, wat op Hoochdüütsch
"barsch" heet. Blot mit en rutfullen 'r', jüst as wi dat ok in en
ganze Reeg annere Wöör hebbt ('swatt', 'hatt', 'Masch', 'döschen',
'Wuddel', 'Baddel', 'Atillerie' un noch veel, veel mehr [woveel, hängt
von'n Dialekt af]).<br><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"> <br> Marcus Buck</font><br><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br><br>Dank di, Marcus. Wat 'n Döösbattel ik bün! Ja, 'n Döösbartel mit 'n R locker ...<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Another
word, which is semantically very close is "bats". In many Dutch
dialects it means "stern, surly, haughty" (Westvlaams, Veluws, Drents,
Gronings, Fries). Also shows up in Westfalian "batsig" and German
"patzig" < *backezen ~ batzen: lump. If Southwestern Brabantish
would have known the word, it might have been pronounced as "basch"
(losing the t plus palatalisation).</div><div><br></div><div>Influence of "bausch" (G), "boos" (D), "to boast" (E)?</div><div><br></div><div>Kind greetings,</div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>
Luc Hellinckx, Halle</div></font></div></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Brooks, Mark</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mark.brooks@twc.state.tx.us">mark.brooks@twc.state.tx.us</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.06.13 (08) [EN]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ron
wrote: “</span><span>Low Saxon has the
diminutive-frequentive (-l-) form <i>ruschel-</i> 'to rustle', especially in
reference to leaves and paper, for instance (equivalent to German <i>raschel-</i>).”</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span>Here in Texas
we also have the by-gone phenomenon of cattle rustling which means stealing
cattle from someone else’s herd to add to your own. I suppose that brought
about the practice of branding cattle, so that one could identify them. I
suspect this kind of rustle comes from the same word, but expanded it meaning
to steal cattle under cover of darkness and quickly.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span>Mark Brooks</span></p><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Jonny</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.06.14 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Beste Marlou,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Du schreyvst:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#339999">...</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#339999" size="4">used the adjective "resch" to
characterize a brusque, energetic, short-spoken person: "Sie hat so eine resche
Art", "Sie war schon in ihrer Jugend eine spröde, resche Person, aber
bildschön...". It was mostly used for women (perhaps men were welcome to be
resch, but women weren't :-)), but not always in a derogatory sense, sometimes
with a certain appreciation. It seems this word is a close relative of "risch",
or maybe just another way of spelling.</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Additional to Ron I found
some more interesting facts around this word:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><u style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">GRIMM:</u><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#339999"><br>"1) neben rasch erscheint auch die form resch,
namentlich oberdeutsch, ferner risch, rosch, rösch (w. m. s.); zwischen rasch
und resch steht die schreibung räsch: der ein räsche
zunge"</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><u style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>Harper Online:</u><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#339999"><br>
"rash
(adj.) <br>c.1300, "nimble, quick, vigorous," a Scottish and northern word,
perhaps from O.E. -ræsc (cf. ligræsc "flash of lightning"), from P.Gmc. *raskuz
(cf. M.L.G. rasch, M.Du. rasc "quick, swift," Ger. rasch "quick, fast"). Related
to O.E. horsc "quick-witted." Sense of "reckless, impetuous, heedless of
consequences" is attested from 1509</font><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">.</span>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="left"> Allerbest!</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="left"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Dick Bateman</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:dickbateman@hotmail.com">dickbateman@hotmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.06.14 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hello there!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ron wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#ff0000">In
English, adjectival-adverbial "-ish" is used similarly, not only as in
"Danish", "Polish" etc., but also in words such as "peckish",
"sluggish", "selfish", "childish", "mannish", 'devilish" and
"fiendish". Informally, it remains an impromptu active lexical
morpheme, as in "noonish" (around noon), "It'll be ninish by the time
he's done", "Don't I look fattish in this dress?", "Your intro is a bit
on the longish side."<br></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In this part of the world at least "ish" can colloquially also be used
as a modifier in its own right, although totally dependent on the
preceding utterance (usually a question), as an alternative to "very",
"quite", "amazingly", etc. Most interestingly of all it isn't
necessarily just a short informal form of adjective+ish as in Ron's
examples above:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"Are you feeling OK now?" - "Ish." (= "OKish")</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"Are you looking forward to tomorrow?" - "Ish." (= ?)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Such answers may be accompanied by a waggling of the outstretched hand, palm down!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Best wishes</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888">
<br>
Dick Bateman<br>
Retired languages teacher<br>
Germanist<br>
South Saxon (originally from the Sussex coast)<br>
Chapel-en-le-Frith, High Peak, Derbyshire<br><br></font><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">----------<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br><br>Hi, Dick!<br><br>How nice you decided to add your voice to a chorus of etymologists! Welcome! I hope we'll hear from you regularly.<br><br>So, "ish" <i>has</i> become a word, at least in casual speech in a certain region! I think it was merely a matter of time. I have occasionally resisted the urge of saying "ish" myself while making a hand movement like that. It seems so natural and tempting!<br>
<br> It may still be perceived as a somewhat jocular, slangy thing. Theoretically, though, it is conceivable that it will develop</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"> into and spread as a legitimate word, and the hand movement may become redundant. Further in theory, "ish" could eventually be used without the implied dependence (such as "Will you be here at ten then?" "Yeah, ...ish." (which is really how it ought to be written for now). "Ish" could eventually come to mean something like "approximately" or "vaguely". To go even farther on this track of etymological theory in reverse, new words may develop on the basis of "ish" (e.g. "All the dates and times are *ishy.")<br>
<br>Why is this a big deal? Independent words have been known to become clitics and to eventually develop into suffixes, in the Germanic languages for instance the "like" group becoming <i>-lic ~ -lig ~ ly</i>. (This process can be traced very well among the Turkic languages where in some languages the separate word is preserved, in some languages it has become a particle or clitic which is dependent but is not integrated into the phonology of the words to which it is attached, and in some languages it has become a true suffix which adapts to the vowel harmony of the stems it modifies.) The case of "ish", if it became legitimized, would be the same process in reverse: a suffix that develops into a word. I can think of no other case like this.<br>
<br></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************