<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 21 June 2009 - Volume 05<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Paddy Van Raepenbusch <<a href="mailto:paddy.vanraepenbusch@googlemail.com">paddy.vanraepenbusch@googlemail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.06.16</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">To Diederik</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Thanks for answering my queries on some potential of the origin of</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"raepenbusch" and the links provided.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"...Indeed 'raap' is the modern Dutch word for turnip, Latin name 'Brassica</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
rapa'. In Amsterdam we also have a street name "Rapenburg", so I thought I'd</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
try to find the etymology on that one as it could be related to your story.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Bu googling for that I actually found a reference to the Flemish one as you</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
mentioned:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
*Vanaf de Stuiver liep hij immers rechtlijnig door via het Sompelstraatje</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
(tot na de tweede wereldoorlog nog in gebruik) langsheen het Goed te</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Zoetendale (nu F. Standaert) tot aan het Hof Rapenburg (Bos, E. Verschelde)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
om, de grensstraat Waarschoot-Zomergem volgend, verderop de hierboven</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
aangehaalde aansluiting te verwezenlijken. In het landboek van 1798 werd hij</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
aangeduid als de “Eekloosche voetweg”, wellicht de oudste verbinding tussen</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Eeklo en Gent. In de atlas van de buurtwegen van 1841 werd hij evenwel niet</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
opgenomen, theoretisch toen reeds afgeschaft zijnde.*</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
**...."</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Best Regards</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Paddy</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Paddy Van Raepenbusch <<a href="mailto:paddy.vanraepenbusch@googlemail.com">paddy.vanraepenbusch@googlemail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.06.16</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hi Ron,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Thanks for your reply.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"... It seems to me that the old *raepen* you're talking about is the cognate of</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
English "to reap".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
The *raepen* in Raepenbusch seems to be a noun in the plural, though...."</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
The relationship with the english word "to reap" makes sense as in old</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
dutch text, it is often used in the sense of "taking, gather, pick</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
up..etc"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
It is also found in the figurative sense as in:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"Uyt een anders onvoorfichtighieyd kan men voor zig felven eene goede</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
les raepen."</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
And by association, ( I don't know what came first, the egg or the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
hen), between "raep" (=turnip) and the verb "raepen" (=</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
pulling,gathering).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
I did also found a reference to a forest called "rappenbusch" in</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
germany (Schifferstadt), the german translation of "rappen" being</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"black horse"! How this relates to the dutch "raepen" is another</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
story!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Best Regards</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Paddy</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" lang="NL">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br><br>Hi, Paddy!<br><br>At first I thought, "Forget about the <i>Rappen</i> thing." But then I thought, "Hmm ... Wait a moment."<br><br>German <i>Rappe</i> (plural <i>Rappen</i>) means 'black horse' as you mentioned. It comes from Middle German <i>rappe</i> 'raven'. (Modern Standard German has <i>Rabe</i> 'raven' but retained <i>Rappe</i> 'black horse' as an archaism.)<br>
<br>Modern Dutch has <i>raaf</i> (phonemically /raav/) for 'raven' (plural <i>raven</i>).<br><br>Could it be that </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">raepen</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> as an older southern Dutch equivalent of </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">raven</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> became fossilized in the name Raepenbusch, equivalent to what would be </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">*Ravenbos</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> in Modern Standard Dutch? Are there any other instances in which older southern /p/ is equivalent to modern standard /v/ (as in the German case mentioned above)?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">So, if this hypothesis holds any water, Raepenbusch could be analyzed as "Raven(s)bush".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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