<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 12 July 2009 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands@lowlands-l.net">lowlands@lowlands-l.net</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>
===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Lexicon" 2009.07.09 (01) [DE-EN-NDS]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id=":11h" class="ii gt">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2">For <strong>red cabbage</strong> (rode kool) we used in our
West-Limburgish: "<strong>rowd kaboës</strong>" as vegetable; it is
called "<strong>rowdmoeës</strong>" (roodmoes) when prepared.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">- On the WNT CD-ROM:</font></div>
<div><em><font size="2"><font color="#008000"><strong>KABUIS (II),</strong> znw. vr.
Mnl. cabuus, cabuys. Kabuiskool (zie ald.); fra. <strong>chou
cabus</strong>....</font></font></em></div>
<div><font size="2">In French, as to Littré:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em><font color="#008000"><strong>CABUS </strong>(ka-bu), adj.
m. Pommé, en parlant du chou. Des choux cabus.<br>HISTORIQUE..... Ital.
cappuccio, chou cabus, proprement capuchon, de cappa, chape ; de là aussi angl.
cabbage, holl. kabuys. Les anciens dictionnaires ont laitue cabusse ou cabue, ce
qui se dit aussi à Genève.</font><br></em>- As for Moes we find on the WNT
CD-ROM:</font></div>
<div><em><font size="2"><font color="#008000"><strong>MOES</strong> (I), znw. onz.
Mnl. <strong>moes</strong>, ags. en osaks. <strong>môs</strong>, ohd.
<strong>muos</strong> enz. Waarschijnlijk in verband staande met germ.
<strong>mati</strong>- (got. <strong>mats </strong>enz.). ... 1) Een of
ander gerecht, gekookt of gestoofd van fijngehakte groente met verschillende
toevoegsels...</font></font></em></div>
<div><font size="2">- We got it generally prepared mixed with little pieces of
apple, it was darky red, not blue, when prepared. It was generally served with
fried sausage and boiled potatos.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">For <strong>green cabbage</strong> as vegetable we used the
term "<strong>savoi",</strong> since we kept that variety in the
garden:</font></div>
<div><font size="2">- On the WNT-CDROM:</font></div>
<div><em><font size="2"><font color="#008000">SAVOYEKOOL, znw. Waarschijnlijk
ontleend aan hd. <strong>Savoyerkohl,</strong> naar fr. <strong>chou de
Savoye</strong>. Als verkorte vorm komt ook voor Savooitje en in Z.-Ndl.
<strong>savooi....</strong></font></font></em></div>
<div><font size="2">It was generally mixed with small pieces of boiled potato into
"<strong>stoemp</strong>" and served with fried bacon or fried round meat balls
(frikadellen). Our frikadellen were generally prepared from a mixture of meat,
egg and ground rusk, the latter giving them a very tasty darky skin.. One
generally added some mustard by oneself to the dish, as to one's individual
preference.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2"><strong>Small sprouts</strong> were obviously seved as a
whole, boiled with some salt and oil added to the boiling water.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">- On the WNT-CDROM:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><font color="#008000"><em>SPRUIT, znw. vr. Mnl. sprute, mnd.
sprute, eng. sprout... ... 3) Jonge, roosvormige loot aan den stengel van
bepaalde koolsoorten, die in hoeveelheden de groente spruitjes of Brusselsche
spruitjes oplevert</em></font></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">I'm not aware of us having white cabbage in the garden.
"<strong>Zuurmoes</strong>" was popular but generally bought prepared in tinned
cans.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">Since we are writing about food, I would like to spend a few
words on bread.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Last week Saturday evening, returning from a conference in
Wiesbaden, I tried to find some bread at a motorway shop South of Kerpen. The
only bread they had; were prepacked blocs of thin slices of very dark tight
bread, quote from the package "<strong>Westfälisches Vollkorn-Brot",</strong>
"<strong>Roggenvollkornbrot</strong>".</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Actually it seams to me identical to
"<strong>Pumpernickel"-</strong>bread.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">- On the WNT-CDROM:</font></div>
<div><em><font size="2"><font color="#008000"><strong>POMPERNIKKEL</strong>, znw. m.
Uit hd. pumpernickel (naast bompernickel), waarvan volgens D. Wtb. (VII, 2231)
de oudste beteekenissen zijn geweest: klein, druk kind en ruwe, onbehouwen man.
Het eerste lid is waarschijnlijk de stam van het ww. <strong>pumpern</strong>,
het tweede stellig een verkorte vorm voor <strong>Nikolaus</strong>. Is dit
juist, dan vergelijke men naar vorm en beteekenis nd. pulter-klaas, in het
Ditmarsche „Name für St. Nikolaus, Schreckgestalt für Kinder” (MENSING 3, 1140;
verg. ook SCHÜTZE 2, 268)...</font></font></em></div>
<div><font size="2">Actually it can be found in Belgian warehouses, but is is not
that popular over here.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">- I remember in the fifties, underlining improved standard of
life, we had turned to <strong>white bread</strong> (when milk was added, for
Sunday-bread, it was called "<strong>mik</strong>",
"<strong>melkmik</strong>"", and with raisins or corinths added
additionally "<strong>kréntemik</strong>", in Brabantish
"<strong>kramiek</strong>")</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">- In the sixties health awareness raised and we turned to
slightly colored bread, we called in West-Limburgish:</font></div>
<div><font size="2">"<strong>gezéft browd</strong>" (sifted bread") or also
"<strong>grèès browd</strong>" (grey bread).</font></div>
<div><font size="2">We I moved more to the west I learned they rather call it
"bruin brood" (brown bread).</font></div>
<div><font size="2">On a bilingual bread bag in Brussels I found
recently:</font></div>
<div><font size="2">in French: "<strong>pain gris</strong>" (grey
bread)</font></div>
<div><font size="2">in Dutch: "<strong>bruin brood</strong>" (brown
bread)</font></div>
<div><font size="2">I guess in South Limburgish we rather were familiar with the
"patisserie de Liège" as bakery standard and used the French term
translated.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Anyhow the slightly colored bread is nowadays sold in quite
some varieties: boerenbrood, volkorenbrood, meergranenbrood etc etc.
etc.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">Generally white bread purchased in France becomes die hard
after a day.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Take the little <strong>pistolet:</strong> the first day the
crust is very crispy, the core is quite pappy when fresh, and often removed. The
French call the soft core: <strong>mie</strong>:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mie" target="_blank">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mie</a></font></div>
<div><font size="2">When not consumed the first day, as well crust as
core become die hard.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Baguettes behave similarily.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Also large round breads as e.g. sold in the Carrefour in Lille
in France, tend to become very hard quite rapidly.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">An exception I found is the Auchan warehouse in Roncq, close
to the Belgian border, where the freshly baked bread lasts a bit longer,
comparable to Belgian bread.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">The French use "(pain de) <strong>mie</strong>" for a
prepacked sliced soft white bread with a soft crust:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_de_mie" target="_blank">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_de_mie</a> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">I think we all have something similar in our warehouses: the
prepacked white bread that stays eternally fresh (soft) and tastes like
cardboard.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">(I remember in Beijing this kind of prepacked bread was
generally very yellow)</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">Littré gives for <strong>mie</strong>:</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><font color="#008000"><em> ... ÉTYMOLOGIE. Provenç.
<strong>mica, mia, miga, mitga</strong> ; espagn. <strong>miga</strong> ; du
lat. <strong>mica panis</strong>, miette de pain, parcelle, pris ensuite pour la
partie molle du pain.</em></font><br>Van Dale Fr-Nl translates:</font></div>
<div><font color="#008000" size="2"><em>... manger la <strong>mie </strong>et
laisser la croüte...: het <strong>kruim </strong>eten en de korst laten
liggen..</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2">A strange expression, since it is just the reverse of what the
French generally do (with fresh bread)</font></div>
<div><font size="2">WNT-CDROM gives:</font></div>
<div><font color="#008000" size="2"><em>KRUIM, znw. vr. en onz., mv. -en., Mnl.
<strong>crume</strong>; verg. ags. <strong>cruma,</strong> meng.
<strong>crumme</strong> (enz.), neng. <strong>crumb</strong>; mnd.
<strong>krome</strong>, nnd. <strong>kröme</strong>; mdd., nhd. (uit 't Mdd.)
<strong>krume</strong>. Men acht 't woord verwant met lat.
<strong>grumus</strong>, aardhoop, en gr.<strong> gruméa</strong>, afval, alban.
<strong>grime,</strong> kruim. ... 2) Het zachte binnenste van brood, in
tegenstelling met de korst</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2">In my Limburgisk "kruimel", crumb, is called
"<strong>breumel</strong>". I can't explain the <strong>k -> b</strong>
mutation.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">We have "br" in "<strong>broemel</strong>", for "braambes",
blackberry, but I see no analogy.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Roger</font></div></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" lang="NL">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Etymology<br><br>Thanks, Roger.<br><br>I found the <i>chou cabus</i> for 'red cabbage' part particularly interesting, because it looks like the word for 'cabbage' twice.<br>
<br>English "cabbage" comes from Norman, more precisely from Anglo-Norman (a Britain-specific dialect of Norman that is now extinct, though some phrases are still used in certain British royal contexts). In Anglo-Norman the word for 'cabbage' is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">caboche</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, probably pronounced [kaˈbɔʤ(ə)]. In today's Norman dialects of Jersey, Guernsey and Sark (recently extinct) it is still </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">caboche</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> and it is written </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">kaboch</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> in Sark Norman.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">There is more information with other examples here: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/norman-intro.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/norman-intro.php</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Norman seems to distinguish </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">caboche</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> 'round cabbage with broad leaves' from </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">chour</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (Sark </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">chu</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, cf. French </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">chou</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">), "long-leaved or -stalked" types of cabbage, which I understand as including kale.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">As for your aside of </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">broemel</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> 'blackberry', it is related to English "bramble(s)", Low Saxon </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brummelbeer</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> ~ </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brommelbeer ~ </i> <i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brammelbeer </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">'blackberry', </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brummeldoorn </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">~ </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brommeldoorn ~ </i> <i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brammeldoorn </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">'bramble(s)', Missingsch </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brommelbeere</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, Standard German </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Brombeere</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> 'blackberry'.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(where another heat wave just gave way to summer rain)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************