<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 16 July 2009 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands@lowlands-l.net">lowlands@lowlands-l.net</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>
===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Resources" 2009.07.16 (03) [EN]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font size="2">Some more comments on Ulenspiegel:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><strong>1 - Middle Dutch</strong></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL"><font size="2"><em>> From: R. F. Hahn <</em></font><a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><font size="2"><em>sassisch@yahoo.com</em></font></a><font size="2"><em>><br>
>
Subject: Resources<br>>Â </em></font></span><font size="2"><em> I am wondering how to get
hold of the earliest versions of the Middle Saxon and Middle Dutch Ulenspeghel
texts. I am not too interested in later translations.</em><br></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I don't know what period one uses for
<strong>Middle-Saxon</strong>.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">For Dutch one generally takes:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Old Dutch:</strong> from ca 500 till 1150-1200
</font><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oudnederlands" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oudnederlands</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Middle Dutch</strong>: 1150-1500 </font><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelnederlands" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelnederlands</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">For the WNT (<strong>Modern Dutch</strong> dictionary) one
considers text quotes dating <strong>from 1500 on</strong>:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNT" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNT</font></a><font size="2">Â "Het
Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal, kortweg WNT, is een historisch woordenboek
dat de Nederlandse woorden <strong>vanaf 1500</strong>
beschrijft.."<br></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Since the earliest known version of Ulenspiegel (in High
German) by Grüninger in Strasbourg dates from 1515 (with some fragments found in
an earlier printing of 1510/11; it is very unlikely any version exists in
"Middle Dutch".</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><strong>2 - The "Damme" connection</strong></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL"><font size="2"><em>* > From: R. F.
Hahn <</em></font><a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><font size="2"><em>sassisch@yahoo.com</em></font></a><font size="2"><em>><br>>
Subject: Resources</em></font></span><br><font size="2"><em>> . I am just saying this because
I've heard some people say it's a <strong>Flemish story.</strong> Well, I guess
it still could be, but Middle Dutch sources would then hardly refer to that
eastern area.</em></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><em></em></font>Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><em>**
> From: <span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be" target="_blank">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span><br>> Subject:
</em></font><font size="2"><em>LL-L
"Resources" 2009.07.16 (05) [EN]<br></em></font><font size="2"><em>> The
first tradition with <strong>Damme</strong> as place of events can apparently
traced back to <strong>1628</strong> with the publication of "Historie van Thijl
Ulenspiegel". It is a mofified (falsified) version printed in Antwerp of an
original published in Amsterdan in 1623Â by Broer Jansz.</em> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">As to "<strong>Damme</strong>" in "Dit is West-Vlaanderen",
1959, 3 vols, St-Andries, Flandria, eerste deel, p. 301-309</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- 1180, 1190, 1241: Dam; 1270 den Damme; 1282: Dam: 1299:
Damme; 1306: ten Damme.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- Damme was initially a town on the estuary "<strong>the
Zwin",</strong> linking Bruges with the North-Sea.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- It was founded as a colony of <strong>dyke-builders from
Holland and Zeeland</strong></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- I don't know whether those dyke-builders did their job that
well, but the Zwin started silting, cutting off Bruges from the sea. The
<strong>Hanze </strong>considered for a while relocating from Bruges to mid-way
Damme, but they finally relocated to Antwerp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- The Dutch-language writer <strong>Jacob van
Maerlant</strong> (died around 1300) is buried in the church of Damme. On his
gravestone one recognized figures simular to an owl and a mirror (Ulenspiegel
-> <strong>Uilen</strong>spiegel). Later some people started thinking that
grave was Ulenspiegels' grave. The pastor has to turn around the gravestone for
stopping a pilgrimage to "Ulenspiegels' grave".</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">It is not clear what what came first: a fake print
putting the story in Damme, or an emerging belief in Tyls' connection to
Damme asking for an adjusted edition.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The copletely rewritten version in French by <strong>De
Coster (1867)</strong> plays in Damme.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">It was well written and translated into several languages.
This gave a second boost for defining Damme as an Ulenspiegel town.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Links:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Damme</strong> in Belgium: </font><font size="2"><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damme_%28Belgi%C3%AB" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damme_(België)</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The <strong>Zwin</strong>: <a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwin_%28zeearm" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwin_(zeearm</a>)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">(original name "<strong><font color="#800000">Sincfala</font></strong>")</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">There is also a <strong>Damme in Niedersachsen</strong>:
</font><font size="2"><a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damme_%28Duitsland" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damme_(Duitsland</a>)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>De Coster</strong> (born in München): <a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_De_Coster" target="_blank">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_De_Coster</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Filmed versions based on De Costers's Tyl:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- in Russian 1976Â <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074784/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074784/</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- one in Dutch 1973 in 4 episodes: <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197067/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197067/</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- one in French 1956 <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048970/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048970/</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><strong>3 - The first Dutch edition</strong></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><em>>
From: <span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be" target="_blank">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span><br>> Subject:
</em></font><font size="2"><em>LL-L
"Resources" 2009.07.16 (03) [EN]<br></em></font>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2"><em>> - The first edition in Dutch was printed in Antwerp
by <strong>Van Hoochstraten</strong> between 1525 and 1546</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em>>... There is one known copy left of the first edition.
It is momentarily in the <strong>Royal Library in
Copenhagen</strong>.</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em>> A modernized version of this first edition was
printed in 1790 by De Langhe in Deventer.</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em>> The lather was further modernized into modern Dutch
and is available as:</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em>> - Wonderbaarlijke en zeldzame Historie van Thyl
Ulenspiegel... hertaald en ingeleid door Guy Segers en Patricia Visscher,
</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em>1996, Leuven, Davidsfonds/Clauwaert, ISBN 90-6306-349-0,
128 pp.</em></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><em><strong><font color="#0000ff">> I don't know if there is
any version in the original Dutch</font></strong> used in
1525-1546.</em></font></div></div></div></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I'm ashamed to admit that I just found that I have a version
in the original 16th century Dutch of around 1530 in my very own
library.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">It is not a facsimile, but a bilingual version "20th-c Dutch"
on left pages, "16th-c Dutch" on right pages.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">A couple of sample pages:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/92_93.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/92_93.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/94_95.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/94_95.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The original got some adjustments, as justified
on:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/91.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/91.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">This includes a <strong>"v->u"</strong>
modernization.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">It comes from:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Het volksboek van Ulenspieghel,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">naar de oudst bewaard gebleven druk van <strong>Michiel Hillen
van Hoochstraten</strong> te Antwerpen uit de eerste helft van de zestiende
eeuw,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">vertaald, ingeleid en van aantekeningen voorzien door Dr. Loek
Geeraedts,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1986, Kapellen, Nederlandsche Boekhandel & Pelckmans, ISBN
90-289-1155-3, 215 pp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">with:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">p 1-91 comments</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">p 92-203 bilingual edition</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">p 205-215 notes</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">From the comments:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">list of Antwerp editions (with additionally some High German
sources)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">and comments on the source material;</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/63.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/63.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/64.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/64.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/65.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/65.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/66.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/66.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><strong>4Â - Jacob van Maerlant & Spiegel Historiael</strong></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The guy who is resting in Tyls' grave in Damme is Jacob van
Maerlant.(ca. 1230 - ca 1293).</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">His works include "<strong>Spiegel Historiael</strong>", a
world history on rime,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">a sample with <font color="#800000">what the
<strong>English</strong> learn from the "<strong>Sassen, Deenen en
Vlaminghe</strong>";</font></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">(I leave it to Ron to translate with the necessary
sensitivity)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/vol3_270.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/tu/vol3_270.jpg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">quoted from p 270 in vol 3 of:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Jacob van Maerlant's</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Spiegel Historiael</strong>..... bewerkt door
</font><font size="2">Philip Utenbroeke rn Lodewijc van Velthem</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1861-1879, Leiden</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">reprint 1982, Utrecht, HES Publishers, </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- eerste deel, civ + 467 pp. ISBN 90-6194-283-7</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- tweede deel, iii + 432 pp. ISBN 90-6194-293-4</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- derde deel, iii + 464 pp., ISBN 90-6194-303-5</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- vierde deel, xxx + 536 pp., ISBN 90-6194-313-2</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">A book about Spiegel Historiael, with several reproductions in
color of the illuminated manuscript:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Jozef Janssens & Martine Meuwese</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Jacob van Maerlant</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Spiegel Historiael</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">De miniaturen uit het handschrift</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Den Haag, Koninklijke Bibliotheek, KA XX</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1997, Leuven, Davidsfonds/Clauwaert, ISBN 90-6306-358-x, 176
pp thick paper large size</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">More about Maerlant:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Frits van Oostrom, Maerlant's wereld,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><em>(bekroond met de AKO-Literatuurprijs)</em></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1996, negende druk 1998, Amsterdam, Prometheus, ISBN
90-5333-654-0, 487 pp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Roger</font></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************