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===========================================<br></font></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Morphology" 2009.07.23 (01) [EN]<br><br></span></font><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div class="im"><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">> From: R. F. Hahn
<<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject:
Morphology<br></span></font></div><div class="im"><font size="2">> Naturally, trying to follow your
train of thought and taking it from there, I arrived at the issue of
<strong>tone </strong>in Scandinavian</font></div></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Ron</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1 - How do you explain and position Limburgish
tonality?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Some resources:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Resources on Limburgish tonality, copy-pasted from URL:<br><a href="http://www.limburgs.org/nl-li/methodology/other-methodology/research/T" target="_blank">http://www.limburgs.org/nl-li/methodology/other-methodology/research/T</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Auteur(s)/Redactie: Vaan, de, M.<br>Gansen titel:
Towards an explanation of the Franconian tone accents<br>Oetgaof:
in: Amsterdamer Beiträge zur älteren Germanistik 51, 1999,
23-44.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Auteur(s)/Redactie: Peters, J.<br>Gansen titel:
Tone and quantity in the Limburgian dialect of Neerpelt<br>Oetgaof:
Proceedings of the 16th International Congress of Phonetic Sciences,
Saarbrücken, 6-10 August 2007.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Auteur(s)/Redactie: Gussenhoven, C.<br>Gansen
titel: On the origin and development of the central Franconian tone
contrast<br>Oetgaof: in: Lahiri A. (ed.), Analogy, levelling, markedness.
Principles of change in phonology and morphology, Berlin, 2000,
215-260</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Auteur(s)/Redactie: Gussenhoven, C.<br>Gansen
titel: Tone in Germanic: Comparing Limburgian with Swedish<br>Oetgaof:
in: Gunnar Fant, Hiroya Fujisaki, Jianfen Cao & Yi Xu (eds.) From
Traditional Phonology to Modern Speech Processing. Beijing: Foreign Language
Teaching and Research Press, 2004, 129-136.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Auteur(s)/Redactie: Gussenhoven, C.<br>Gansen
titel: Tone systems in Dutch Limburgian dialects<br>Oetgaof: in:
Shigeki Kaji (ed.), Proceedings of the symposium Cross-Linguistic Studies of
Tonal Phenomena: Tonogenesis, Typology, and Related Topics. Tokyo: Tokyo
University of Foreign Languages, Institute for the Study of Languages and
Cultures of Asia and Africa, 1999, 127-143.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Auteur(s)/Redactie: Cajot, J.<br>Gansen titel:
Een toonloze enclave in polytoon gewaand gebied; Een les in structurele
fonologie?<br>Oetgaof: in: Jaarboek 3 van de Verenging voor Limburgse
Dialect- en Naamkunde, Hasselt, 2001, 71-78</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I only have the publication of Cajot at home. He shows that in
an enclave grouping some municipalities, at the South-East of Belgian Limburg
adjacent to the walloon language border, tonality is lost.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">2 - Why did High-German miss a simplification process? There
is sufficient difference between Low and High German, and even between Southern
German dialects to see a potential for language simplicication.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Although many Limburgish speakers can make themself understood
in the Western Rhine area in Germany, mastering German Grammar is still an
horror though. </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Roger<br><br>---------<br><br></font><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" lang="NL">From: R. F. Hahn
<<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Language history</span><br><br>Hi, Roger!<br><br></font><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">1 - How do you explain and position Limburgish
tonality?</font></div>
<font size="2"><br>I've been mulling this one over for ages. We are basically talking about a "simple" falling tone, or <i>sjtoettoen</i> ("pushing tone"), in contrast with the <i>sjleiptoen</i><br>
<br>Low Saxon, too, has what they call <i>Slääptoon</i>, in contrast with the <i>Stœttoon</i>. The <i>Slääptoon</i> is not so much a tone than a case of super-length before a voiced consonant where a final <i>-e</i> has been dropped. The consonant remained voiced, i.e. does not undergo the usual rule of final devoicing. In other words, the word is treated as though the final <i>-e</i> is still there. Its length comes to be added to the long vowel in the preceding syllable, though, and this results in super-length.<br>
<br>Example:<br><br>Low Saxon:<br><i>Stœttoon</i>: <i>Dag</i> [dax] 'day'<br><i>Slääptoon: </i>(<i>Daage</i> [ˈdɒːɣe] >) <i>Dag' ~ Daag'</i> [dɒːˑɣ] (not *[dɒːx]) 'days'<br></font> ("dragging tone" or "drawl"). <font size="2"><br>
</font></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>Limburgish:<br><i>sjleiptoen</i>: <i>daag</i> <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[daː˦˨˧x] 'day'</span><br>
<i>sjtoettoen: daag</i> <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[daː˦˨x] 'days'<br><br>So the distribution of "tones" is reversed. A vexing albeit interesting situation. I am inclined to believe that deletion of <i>-e</i> plays </span>a role in both languages.<br>
<br>Consider also this Limburgish case (which has no analogy in Low Saxon, since "bee" is <i>Imme > Imm</i>):<br><br><i>sjtoettoen</i>:<i> </i><i>bie</i> <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[biː˦˨] 'bee'<br>
</span><i>sjleiptoen</i>: <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA"><i>bie </i></span><span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[biː˦˨˧] 'by'</span><br>
<br>I am postulating that, while "absorption" of "deleted" <i>-e</i> led to the <i>Slääptoon </i>in Low Saxon, "absorption" of "deleted" <i>-e</i> led to the <i>sjtoettoen</i> in Limburgish. Why the difference?<br>
<br>Here's my hunch:<br><br>In Low Saxon, the <i>-e</i> is underlying but undergoes deletion with the exception of (unstressed short vowel) length, and the length is added to the preceding vowel. This results in super-length (as also known in Estonian), the term <i>Slääptoon</i> being a misnomer probably adopted from Netherlands and Begian linguistics.<br>
<br>In Limburgish, length preservation and reallocation does not play a role but pitch does, and it is my preliminary postulation that tones of two consecutive syllables develope(d) into a contour tone when the second syllable is deleted. In other words, the tone of the second, unstressed and thus low, syllable is added to the remaining stressed and thus high syllable:<br>
<br><i>*daage</i> [daː˦˨˧ɣ]+[ə˨] > [daː˦ɣ]+[ə˨] > [daː˦˨ɣ] > <i>daag</i> [daː˦˨x] 'days'<br><i>*bieë</i> [biː˦˨˧]+[ə˨] > [biː˦ɣ]+[ə˨] > <i>bie</i> [biː˦˨] 'bee'<br><br>What I am assuming here is that, when another syllable follows, in the first syllable the Limburgish "plain" dipping countour tone (<i>sjleiptoen</i>) is simplified to become a high tone, its originally first component.<br>
<br>This type of creating a single-syllable falling tone from a two-syllable sequence of high+low is very common for instance among African languages where contraction of low+high creates a rising tone, contraction of high+low+high creates a dipping town, and contraction of low+high+low creates a rising and falling tone. In other words, a sequence of more than one syllable may be contracted to be come a single syllable, but the prosody of the original seqence relains and results in contour tones.<br>
<br>Why does Limburgish have a dipping tone in a single syllable (not followed by <i>-e</i>) rather than a simple falling tone as in related language varieties? I don't know, but my hunch is that it has something to do with Rhenish prosody as an areal feature. In the prosodies of Ripuarian and Alemannic varieties, perhaps other varieties as well, there is a tendency toward using contour tones or sequences of tonal height contrasts that is rather striking to outsiders. Many of you may have noticed this in varieties of Swiss Alemannic which to the unintiated tend to sound like tonal languages, not unlike Scandinavian. Why is this, and why in the Central and Upper Rhine areas? Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps a substratum feature of Celtic varieties that used to be spoken in those areas?</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>
<br>
Might we go as far as saying that in Rhenish-colored Limburgish prosody
has been considered more important than in related languages such as
Dutch, Low Saxon and English in which deletion of <i>-e</i> did not result in contour tones?<br></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">The genesis of tonality is still pretty much a mystery. My proposal re Limburgish may well explain one such case. Comparing it with the said African cases that developed contour tones by way of contraction, we have to note that these languages were all tonal to begin with, though originally they had only the simple contrast of high and low. Was Limburgish thus originally tonal? Not necessarily I'd say.<br>
<br>As for orthography, I would, if I may, suggest a following apostrophe to indicate deletion of <i>-e</i> and thus presence of the falling tone; e.g.<br><br><b>daag</b> (day)</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> [< *daag]</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><b>daag'</b> (days) [< *daage]<br><br><b>bie </b>(by)</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> [< </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">*bie]</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><b>bie' </b>(bee) [< </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">*bieë]</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br><b>sjtein</b> (stone)</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> [< </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">*</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">sjtein</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">]</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><b>sjtein'</b> (stones)</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> [< </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">*sjteine]</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br><b>graof </b>(grave)</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> [< </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">*graov]</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><b>graof'</b> (ditch, hole by a road) </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> [< </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">*graove]</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>
<br>I said before that tonality tends to disappear in contact situations. I believe I have to qualify this by saying that there are exceptions. <br><br>For example, Livonian, a Balto-Finnic language (thus related to Estonian and Finnish, neither of which is tonal) is tonal, probably because of Latvian, a tonal language that has been overshadowing it for a long time. Livonian has been moribund for a long time. Could it be that, as its bases is being eroded, it is increasingly based on Latvian?<br>
<br>Another example is, among all the non-tonal Slavic languages, the group of South Slavic languages: Slovenian and Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian, while closely related Bulgarian and Macedonian of the Balkans are not tonal? All right, Old Greek is tonal, and most early ancestors of the Slavs were enslaved by Greeks. Could tonality in the said language be due to Greek substrata? Then why is there no tonality in Bulgarian and especially Macedonian, including the Slavic variety used in Northern Greece that are geographically closest to Greek? Or have they lost tonality in concert with Greek itself? Could tonality in </font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">Slovenian and Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian be due to Celtic substrata?</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">We know very, very little about the Celtic languages of the European continent. There are most certainly no phonological descriptions. We might assume that there was a lot of diversity among them, being that they used to be spread from Eastern Turkey to Galicia's and Portugal's coasts and from Southern France to the Shetland Island and beyond to the Faroes and Iceland. Note, however, that among the Lowlands varieties it was only the Saxon language that was outside the former Celtic range (though some of the varieties used in the Netherlands are at the edge of the Celtic range), and the Saxon and Northern Frisian and Dutch areas were outside the Roman Empire as well, while Rome's presence was particularly strong along the Rhine.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Roger further wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" size="2">2 - Why did High-German miss a simplification process?</font><br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">I don't really know but would guess that it has something to do with the grammar being based only on Southern and Central German varieties, all of which had that sort of grammar, e.g. morphological distinction between dative and accusative and between masculine, feminine and neuter. Low Saxon ("Low German") varieties were at that time considered constituting a different language, which is why Martin Luther asked the Pomeranian Johannes Bugenhagen to translate the Bible for the Saxons. Low Saxon later contributed</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> to the development of Standard German</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> only in the form of lexical material (actually a lot of it). It is only Missingsch and Northern German developed from it that has some simplification along the lines of Low Saxon. You must also bear in mind that at that time, education made people focus on Latin and Greek as the ideal classical languages, and that grammatical complexity was therefore considered desirable in a power language.<br>
<br>By the way, speakers of Low Saxon and even speakers of Missingsch and also speakers of East and North Frisian have the same problems with Standard German that speakers of Dutch, Frisian and Limburgish have. (It is probably similar</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">, if not harder,</font><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"> to speakers of Afrikaans having to acquire active command of Dutch.) It is only that speakers in Germany are more intensively exposed to it, especially once they start going to school where it is the only permissible language, unless they visit Sorbian or Danish schools, but even then Standard German contents are considerable. These days they are being bombarded by it since they are being exposed to Standard-German-dominated media from an early age. I guess it's similar to Scots-speaking children being bombarded by Scottish, English and American English from an early age.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br></font>
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