<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 25 July 2009 - Volume 03<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands@lowlands-l.net">lowlands@lowlands-l.net</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>
===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Language history" 2009.07.25 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font size="2">Can the bitonality in the <strong>Limburgish - Ripuarian -
Moselle-Franconian language areas</strong> be historically
explained?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Below a long story about the evolution of the
area.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">a - The nortthern part of Gaul was called
<strong>Belgium</strong> in Ceasars' time. The<strong> language</strong> of the
area was reputedly <strong>different </strong>from that of the core-Gauls, but
all further comments on that reported language are rather
speculative.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Quote from the L</font><font size="2">atin version and
translation of Caesars De bello Gallico, copied from H. J. Edwards, Caesar, The
Gallic War, Harvard U.P., chapter I,1</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">Gallia est omnis divisa in partis tres, quarum unam
incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli
appellantur.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Gaul is a whole divided into three parts, one of which is
inhabited by the <strong>Belgae</strong>, another by the
<strong>Aquitani</strong>, and a third by a people called in their own tongue
<strong>Celtae</strong>, in the Latin<strong> Galli</strong>.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se
differunt.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">All these are <strong><font color="#0000ff">different from
another in language</font></strong>, institutions, and laws.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">Gallos ... a Belgis Matrona et Sequana
dividit.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The Galli (Gauls) are separated ... from the Belgae by the
Marne and the Seine.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae ... proximique sunt
Germanis,,qui trans Rhenum incolunt, quibuscum continenter bellum
gerunt.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Of all these people the Belgae are the most couregeous... they
are nearest to the Germans dwelling <strong>beyond</strong> the
Rhine.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus orriuntur; pertinent ad
inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni; spectant in septentrionem et orientem
solem.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The Belgae, beginning from the edge of the Gallic territory,
<strong>reach to the lower part of the river Rhine</strong>, bearing towards the
north and east.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">What language did the Belgians speak? Did they all speak a
very same language? Many think it was a mixture, more Celtic to the South, more
Germanic to the North, but that's all speculative. There are elements in
toponomy, explained as Gallic-Celtic.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">b- As to comments by Van Looy in his edition of "De bello
Gallico":</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Starting the<strong> 9th and 8th century BC</strong> the
<strong>Celts,</strong> from there former core territory in Southern-Germany and
Bohemia, <strong>started penetrating</strong> in Gaul (and on the British Isles)
and expelled, decimated or absorbed the original population.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">We don't know what language was spoken before the Celts moved
to the West.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I guess only the <strong>Basque language</strong> still
survives as a pre-Celtic language.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Since the last Ice age (The Weichsel/Würm ice
age)Â closed the Pleistocene period around <strong>11.500 BC</strong> only
inhabitants <strong>after that period</strong> likely settled
<strong>permanently</strong> in our area.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">c - When we look at maps illustrating editions of Caesar's De
Bello Gallico, we see the <strong><font color="#0000ff">Eburones</font></strong>
positioned in the Cologne-Limburg area and the <strong><font color="#0000ff">Treviri </font></strong>in the Moselle area. The land of
Eburones is part of the Belgian part, the Treviri teritory belongs to
a North-Eastern protrusion of the core-Gaul part.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The Eburones were murdered out, as to Caesar's reporting, and
were later replaced by other tribes, as e.g. the Tungri in Belgian
Limburg.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Some state the <strong><font color="#0000ff">Tungri</font>
</strong>came from over the Rhine, others state that Eburons who
survived changed the name of their tribe into Tungri.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">d - Later it became apparently popular for tribes in the North
to clain a Gemanic origin:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Quote from the Latin version and translation of Tacitus'
Germania, copied from M. Hutton, Tacitus' Germania, Harvard U.P., chapter
28</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">... <em>Treviri et Nervii circa adfectationem Germanicae
originis ultro ambitiosi sunt, tanquam per hanc gloriam sanguinis a similitudine
et inertia Gallorum separuntur.</em></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The <strong>Treviri </strong>[Moselle area] and <strong>Nervii
</strong>[area Bavai - Cambrai] conversely go out of their way in their ambition
to claim a <strong>German origin</strong>, as though this illustrious anchestry
delivers them from any affinity with the indolent Gaul.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Can we conclude that, if they were of Germanic origin, they
<strong>lost their language</strong>, since the do not base their claim on
language appearance?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The tribal names and the names of the chiefs were celtic
though.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Defenders of a germanic color stated that this doesn't prove
anything and that it was just fashion of the time to take celtic
names.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Some checks (with Delamarre):</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The tribe of the <strong>Eburons</strong>: those who beat
with the yew/taxus</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Â Â Â o-irl ibar, bret ivor, welsh
efwr</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">their chief <strong>Ambiorix</strong></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Â Â Â ambi: from both sides;Â Â ambio:
separated territory</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Â Â Â rix: king</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">For the <strong>Treviri </strong><-- Treueri <-
tre-uori  guiding - over water</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">For the Nervii:Â ? ner = male, power</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Some resources for <strong>the "Gallic"
language</strong>:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- a scientifically conceived dictionary: Xavier Delamarre,
<strong>Dictionnaire de la langue gauloise, Une approche du vieux-celtique
continental</strong>, 2e édition, 2003, Paris, Errance, ISBN 2-87772-237-6, 440
pp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- an easy reader, focus on influences on the French language:
Pierre Gastal, <strong>Sous le Français le Gaulois, Histoire, vocabulaire,
étymologie, toponymie</strong>, 2002, Le Sureau, Méolans-Revel, ISBN
2-911328-07-8, 221 pp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- a descriptive grammar with quotes of texts: Pierre-Yves
Lambert, <strong>La Langue Gauloise, Description linguistique, commentaire
d'inscriptions choisies</strong>, édition revue et augmentée, 2003, Errance,
Paris, ISBN -87772-224-4, 248 pp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- a collection of inscriptions: Joshua Wharmough, <strong>The
dialects of ancient Gaul, prolegomena and records of the dialects</strong>,
1970, Harvard UP, LCCCN 69-12739, SBN 674-20280-5, xxi + 85 + 1376 pp.,
with:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Â Â - Belg</font><font size="2">ica p
661-843</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Â Â - Germania Inferior p 843-984</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Â Â - Germania Superior p. 985-1153</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">e - Hoverver there are already significant attemps by Germani
for penetrating into Gaul in Caesar's time:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Ceasar, de Bello Gallico, ...I, 37</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">... <em>Treviri autem pagos centum <strong>Sueborum
</strong>ad ripam Rheni consedisse, qui Rhenum transire
conarentur...</em></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The Triviri reported that one hundred cantons of the
<strong>Suebi </strong>had settled on the banks of the Rhine, and were attemting
to cross te river</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">f - In Tacitus time were reported as Germani living on the
border of the river Rhine (Germania, 28):</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">... Ipsam Rheni ripam haud dubie Germanorum populu colunt,
Vangiones, Troboci, Nemetes. Ne Ubii quidem, quanquam Romana colonia esse
meruerint ac libertius Agrippinenses condoteris sui nomine vocentur, origine
erubescunt, transgressi olim et experimento, fidei super ipsam Rheni ripam
collocati, ut arcerent, non ut custodirentur.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">On the river-bank itself are planted certain peoples
indubitably German: <strong>Vangiones, Triboci, Nemetes</strong>. Not even the
<strong><font color="#0000ff">Ubii</font>,</strong> though they have earned the
right to be a Roman colony, and prefer to be called <strong>"<font color="#0000ff">Agrippinenses</font></strong><font color="#0000ff">",</font> from
the name of their founder, blush to own their Germanic origin: they originally
came from beyond the river, and were placed in charge of the bank itself, after
they had given proof of their loyalty, in order to block the way to others, not
in order to be under supervision.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The first three can be excluded for our tonal area, since they
have to be placed more in the South, as to the comments by Hutton (and
Moonen):</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- Vangiones: round Borbetumagus (Worms)Â (Moonen:
Bingen-Ludwigshafen)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- Triboci: round Breucomagus (Brumat) (Moonen:
Stasbourg-Mulhouse)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- Nemetes: round Noviomagus (Speyer)Â Â (Moonen;
between Strssbourg and Ludwigshafen)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font size="2">... Suebi..maiorem enim Germaniae partem obtinent ...
 38</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">the <strong>Suebi...</strong> for they occupy the greater part
of Germany</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Comment by Hutton: Suebi... the Triboci, Vangiones and Nemetes
were related to them.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">So we keep for our area the <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Ubii</strong>, also <strong>called
Agrippinenses</strong></font>.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">cf. "<em>Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium (kurz CCAA,
deutsch: Claudische Kolonie und Opferstätte der Agrippinensier) war der Name der
römischen Kolonie im Rheinland, aus der sich die heutige Stadt Köln entwickelt
hat. Die CCAA war Hauptstadt der römischen Provinz Niedergermanien und
Hauptquartier des niedergermanischen Heeres."</em> from URL: </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Claudia_Ara_Agrippinensium" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Claudia_Ara_Agrippinensium</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">g The area along the river Rhine, Western or Roman side, got
'<strong><font color="#0000ff">Germania'</font> </strong>as denomination for some
districts. Â It is <strong>not</strong> clear whether this means these
areas were <strong>linquistically "germanized".</strong></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">We basically have to do with more languages in the
area:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- old german - gallic-celtic - latin - latin vulgus -
other?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- Around AD 89 (under Trajanus) we got<br><strong>Germania
Inferior</strong>: </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Inferior" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Inferior</font></a><br><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_r%C3%B6mischen_vici_in_Niedergermanien" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_römischen_vici_in_Niedergermanien</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Germania Superior</strong>Â </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Superior" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Superior</font></a><font size="2">Â <br>
</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- During the reign of Diocletianus AD 297 the map was a bit
redrafted:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Germania Inferior roughly became <strong>Germania
Secunda</strong><br></font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Secunda" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Secunda</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">as well as a part went to Belgica Prima.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Germania Superior was split in:<br>- <strong>Germania
Prima</strong> (Germania I) North of Strasbourg </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Prima" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Prima</font></a><br><font size="2">-
Sequania (<strong>Maxima Sequanorum</strong>) South of Strasbourg, capital
Besançon </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_Sequanorum" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_Sequanorum</font></a><br><font size="2">While Köln and Tongeren were in Germania II, Trier was in Belgica I. So
our tonal area was split over 2 Roman districts.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Comment: It is confusing that prima and secunda
are sometimes interchanged in history books.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">h. After the big invasions from the East our tonal area was
part of <strong>Austrasia </strong>(426-751)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrasia" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrasia</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">(with several redivisions and reunifications)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">till it became part of Charlemagnes Reign.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">g. After Charlemagne's reign our tonal region became part
of <strong>Lotharingia.</strong></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Verdun 843 Lotharingia </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotharii_Regnum" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotharii_Regnum</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Verdun" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Verdun</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">with succesive redivisions in</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- 855 division of Prüm </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teilung_von_Pr%C3%BCm" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teilung_von_Pr%C3%BCm</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- 870 division of Meersen </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Mersen" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Mersen</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- 880 division of Ribemont </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Ribemont" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Ribemont</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">- 959/965/977 Split in Lower and Upper
Lotharingia</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Lower Lotharingia existed formally till 1190, when it ceased
to be a formal territory:Â cf. "Sterbeurkunde": </font><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederlothringen" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederlothringen</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Anyhow our tonal area was split:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Köln was in Lower Lotharingia, Trier in Upper
Lotharingia</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Herzogtum_Lothringen_1000.PNG" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Herzogtum_Lothringen_1000.PNG</font></a></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">h - Since 870 the area was part of the Holy Roman
empire,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Major political territories <u>in the tonal area</u>
in the middle ages:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>County of Loon</strong>, later par of the principality
of Liège <a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graafschap_Loon" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graafschap_Loon</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Duchy of Limburg</strong>, acquired by the Duke of
Brabant <a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertogdom_Limburg" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertogdom_Limburg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>County of Jülich</strong> (Gullik in Dutch, Juliers in
French) <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogtum_J%C3%BClich" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogtum_Jülich</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Bishopric of Köln</strong> <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurk%C3%B6ln" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurköln</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Bishopric of Trier</strong>Â <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtrier" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtrier</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">and East of the river Rhine: <strong>The Duchy of
Berg</strong> <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogtum_Berg" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogtum_Berg</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">g - In the West of Germany the transition from Low to High
German takes a long distance, divided in sections delimited by significant
isoglosses.:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinischer_F%C3%A4cher" target="_blank"><font size="2">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinischer_Fächer</font></a><font size="2">  </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">One finds in literature that Kurköln and Kurtrier had a
significant linguistic impact in their areas.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I guess this may explain the "zonal" transition, with
intermediate "poles".</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">Stevens studied for the South of Belgian Limburg
what language elements of Cologne penetrated in that area (Limburgish
Haspengouw) at what time.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">He concludes that the
<strong>linguistic influence of Cologne</strong> starts <strong>dying out
in the 13th century,</strong> mainly through the increased power and influence
from Brabant:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">-- quote:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font color="#800080" size="2">... Keulen bisschopszetel voor Zuidelijk
Westfalen en aartsbisdom voor ... het oude bisdom
Tongeren-Maastricht-Luik....</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><em><font color="#800080" size="2">Zeker is dat de Keulse invloed zich ook nog
na de de 12e eeuw heeft laten gelden, maar na het opkomen van de Brabantse
machtsfactor in de 13e eeuw vindt hij in onze streken geen onbetwist
expansieterrein meer en na de slag bij Woerringen heeft hij zijn hoogtepunt
achter de rug, Voor Haspengouw althans mag aanvaard worden dat met de 14e eeuw
de positie van het Keulerlands (het zgn. Ripuarisch) als "parler directeur"
voorbij is.</font></em></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">-- end quote</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">Some examples of <strong>Ripuarian
elements</strong> that penetrated in Limburgsh Haspengouw in those early
times:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><font color="#800080">-
<strong>bitonality</strong></font></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">- elongation of short vowels before s, ch,
f</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">- vocalisation of ch before t</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font color="#800080" size="2">- the deletion of t/d at the end of words after
other consonnants than r and l</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><font color="#800080">- the elongation of short vowels before
rs</font>.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Stevens, <strong>De evolutie van de Haspengouws
streektalen</strong>, p. 223-264 in:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Federatie der Limburgse Geschied- en Oudheidkundige Kringen,
Limburgs Haspengouw, 1951, XL + 351 pp.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Roger</font></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************